Please HELP!! Leaking UPVC Windows

[jerseydj]

I am having an absolute nightmare with my UPVC windows that were fitted just over a year ago - 70% of them are allowing water to penetrate into the building and I fear the original fitters have botched the job.

The problem is the fixing at the bottom of the window, the new windows were supplied with UPVC sills ( required in case the existing concrete ones were not cast deep enough according to fitter). These sills are set at varying heights above the existing sills - most between 30mm and 50mm. The rusultant gap at the bottom of each window has then been filled with expanding foam and finished with mortar. There is no silicone seal or other non permeable barrier to prevent water ingress.

Perhaps not suprisingly when we get driving rain water is penetrating through the gap between the PVC sill and the mortar, over the foam and into the wall cavity and eventually soaking into the walls.

The fitters have agreed that the fixing is not watertight but are adament that the installation is standard. I am not convinced by much of what they have told me - I have yet to see another intallation with a gap under a secondary UPVC sill.

The window manufacturers guidlines only specify a minimum gap for expansion although they do specify that a suitable elastic sealant should be used for all exterior seals (mortar was not 'elastic' last time I checked!)

Can anyone offer advice on whether this is indeed a common practice and what should I push for as a solution.

Any comments appreciated!!

Untitled

• jerseydj
• 14 Oct 2010
• 1

 

[crank39]

Is it my eyes or is the pvc cill running backwards?

In any case it looks like the window is too short in height hence the need to foam and cement up. The use of foam is common practice in fitting windows so they haven't done wrong there but it looks like theres a tad too much.

Incidentally, how much of the frame if any is hidden behind the internal window cill or plaster? This might explain why the window was made shorter and why the pvc cill is that far off the stone cill, BUT really they should of sat the pvc cill on the stone cill and used a frame extender (add-on) in between the window and pvc cill.

Where is the water appearing on the inside? Could it be that they haven't siliconed the window to the pvc cill (quite common) and the rain is tracking backwards between the two, either way at a year old i'd get the fitters back or better still the MD

 

[jerseydj]

I think that's just a trick of the camera - I haven't noticed any standing water on the PVC sill - but I'll check with a level!

There is the same gap at the bottom on the interior - there is about between 10mm and 50mm of trim visible (on different windows) between the bottom of the window frame and the interior sill. The fitter tells me this is the back end of the PVC sill.

The water is showing on the ground floor, mainly around the lintels for the corresponding windows below. The building is a cavity wall construction with a concrete collar at between the floors - it seems the water is running down the cavity and then soaking through the concrete collar and into the walls, creating a depressing damp patch running the perimeter of the room every time we get heavy rain!

I've had the MD of the fitters out and he has verbally admmitted there is a problem but not that the windows have come down small (which is what I think) they have also yet to offer a solution. Although one of the fitters did suggest cutting out the mortar and the foam and then re-doing it with a DPC tray.

 

[crank39]

Its a tidy enough job but for me theres too much mortar under the window, there must be a reason for this, my guess is......

1/ The window is 30mm short in height, this happens a lot in the window game when the surveyor does or doesn't specify that the overall height of the window includes the cill (30mm thick) then when it is being made they deduct 30mm from the window height which is made back up when you put a cill on it, looks like in this case the cill was deducted for twice.

2/ Why cloak the interior edge of the pvc cill? My guess again is that behind the trim you will find expanding foam NOT the back of the pvc cill!

IMO opinion the window HAS to come out to investigate properly and to effect any sort of repair, silicone, foam and cement has clearly not stopped the water getting in, also get them back and ask why the window is short in height, listen to the excuses, watch them sqirm and riggle then tell them you want a new window making to the correct dimensions

 

[jerseydj]

That's the stage I'm at now - we chipped the mortar off the window in the photo and the foam and behind was wet, that was the only way they would accept there was a leak to deal with.

In an ideal world we would push for new windows but for that I would have to prove that the windows are not fit for purpose -there are 17 windows in total so they won't replace unless they absolutely have to.

I suspect they will come back with some sort of repair plan - which I will post when I get it.

Thanks for the advice!

 

[diy_fun_uk]

... The fitters have agreed that the fixing is not watertight but are adament that the installation is standard ...

yeah mate we've left you with a porus solution but don't worry, it's industry standard to do that.



it's an easy enough fix, mortar and foam removed to required depth, piece of upvc section in where the vertical section of green is, under lip of sill obviously, silicon around, done. if you roughen up the pieced in section you could even paint it the green colour if you don't want too much white upvc at bottom of window.

i would listen carefully to what their proposed fix is and if it sounds cack i'd do it myself if you're competent at diy.

i was annoyed when my mum got upvc windows put in years back by one of scotland's biggest installers. the survey guy obviously measured a bit short so mum ended up with quite a lot of upvc at bottom of the windows (a pet hate of mine when i see this as it's just lazy measuring.) a few years later she had to get one of the windows completely replaced under warranty. i insisted they come out to re-measure prior to constructing a new window and hey-presto this one was 2 or so cms longer, made all the difference.

good luck but don't worry, as i say, easy fix.

 

[ostridge]

The water is showing on the ground floor, mainly around the lintels for the corresponding windows below. The building is a cavity wall construction with a concrete collar at between the floors - it seems the water is running down the cavity and then soaking through the concrete collar and into the walls, creating a depressing damp patch running the perimeter of the room every time we get heavy rain!

The lintel located above this window I assume is concrete but ther should be a DPC above that to allow water to escape usually through weep holes to external, but still above the window.
Is this dampness from the window, or from water from above in the cavity and not escaping through weep holes, or is the DPC (damp course) faulty or failed. Perhaps a damp survey required usually free from (reputable) damp course contractors - of course with a quote for repairs.

 

[jerseydj]

Thanks ostridge, we pretty much exhausted every possibility above the window (including new roof, fascias and gutters!) as until recently the window company were adamant the windows weren't leaking. We've since tried bodging with a upvc plate and loads of silicone and that has stopped the leaks but looks terrible.

The original quote/survey was for windows without any upvc cills and for a different upvc profile so I'm looking to get them re-done as per that specification.

Cheers

 

[Comeinhandy]

I am having an absolute nightmare with my UPVC windows that were fitted just over a year ago - 70% of them are allowing water to penetrate into the building and I fear the original fitters have botched the job.

Any comments appreciated!!

Untitled

• jerseydj
• 14 Oct 2010
• 1

Hi, I had lots of water leaks due to sills. I made a video of the only solution that fixed it 100%. Take a look on youtube for channel comeinhandynow and my video:
http://youtu.be/AhU_9ME311s