Potterton Netaheat MKIIF 16-22 not Firing - Obviously a contentious thread!

[rwiddowson]

Morning,

I am faced with my boiler which is failing to light the pilot.

I am aware that this being a postive case pressure boiler that I should not work on it and neither am I soliciting for encouragement to do so.

I am simply looking to repair it without deliving too deep.

I have taken the case off in the dark distant past and understand the risks involved in not replacing the case properly and it not being sealed.

I also am aware I should get a gas safe registered engineer to look at it.

Upon turning the thermostat up, the fan can be heard to start and a sound that is probably the solenoid valve allowing gas to the burner but no firing. It clicks but does not fire.

I have already taken the relay out and cleaned up the contacts because it was clicking VERY rapidly so I assume clearly not able to make a clean connection. Plugged back in, it now does not make the noise.

I have found that I happen to have a spare electrode kit for this model which I must have bought years ago when it was playing up before.

However, looking through the troubleshooting in the owner's manual seems to suggest it is the control unit.

Can anyone advise from their experience if this sounds to be the case please? It would be very much appreciated as I am on my knees financially at the moment.

 

[Agile]

You clearly know the restrictions on this site regarding DIY gas work.

You also admit that you have already done gas work on your boiler and clearly you intend to do further gas work on it if you get advice from here.

Unfortunately, as you should realise, we are not going to give you that advice.

You say you have financial difficulties. But there are boiler replacement schemes for the genuinely needy.

Please do the proper thing and call an RGI with knowledge of your old boiler.

Tony

 

[rwiddowson]

Sorry have made it clear. I have NO intention of removing the boiler case. I have never done gas work on the boiler and NEVER would. Too dangerous. May be broke but not entirely stupid.

I only wish to ascertain if this is a simple boiler control unit swap out.

Thank you also for extremely prompt response.

Furthermore, my financial situation would not enable me to get a boiler placement. I have my own business which is failing and hence no income to speak of. I would imagine I could not get a boiler replaced unless I was on the dole and scrounging off society. Something I would never do!

 

[Agile]

Morning,

I have taken the case off in the past and understand the risks involved in not replacing the case properly and it not being sealed.

You seem to be contradicting yourself there!

You clearly intend to do anything to your boiler and have previously bought internal spare parts for that purpose.

Quite simply you will not get DIY gas advice here.

If anyone was stupid enough to give it the post would be deleted and they would risk being told off by the site operator.

It seems surprising just who can get new boilers provided. One house I went to had two large cars outside both about three years old.

Tony

 

[rwiddowson]

I have edited that comment because the past could be yesterday. It was many years ago and of course replacing the electrode would involve taking the case off.

As it happens, I have read one of your posts where you were criticised for giving advice out although you were clear that you were not encouraging DIY work. You commented that this is why the forum is called DIYnot so I am at a loss as to why you would now not give out information.

I intend to repair this boiler with or without advice. Not having ANY advice however basic will obviously put me at a higher risk. Some simple do and don'ts may help to diagnose what the problem is. I am merely asking for advice, from experience of those that are qualifed, to limit the risk. There is nothing wrong in that especially if the case is not removed.

As I stated in my first post, the chances are it is the control board. I cannot afford a new control board but can probably source one between now and the onset of winter at a decent price on Ebay.

Replacing the control board does not involve removing the sealed case. Therefore, I am respectfully asking for some advice here.

Alternatively, where do I start going about getting a free boiler?

 

[Agile]

You clearly do want to do the repairs yourself.

My quote from your original posting shows what you originally said!

Even replacing the PCB should not be done by a non gas reg person because it controls the combustion.

After any work is done on a boiler the basic combustion aspects have to be checked including in your boiler's case that the case is not leaking.

Any advice given here is likely to be deleted because its against the site rules which you are deemed to have read and accepted before you posted here.

Usually searching on the internet will show boiler replacement schemes. The standard reply would be to ask at a consumer advice office.

Tony

 

[rwiddowson]

All sorted.

It was the relay. I took it off and changed it again and bent one of the contacts that was sparking green a smidgen closer to the bimetallic strip.

Interestingly, the pilot looked a bit orange before I did that and now is a clear blue. I am going to buy a new relay and invest in a RGI engineer to come and clean it though I've heard that most won't even touch positive pressure case boilers but rather condemn them.

I dislike the boiler intensely because it is so inefficient costing around £2500-£3000 a year to heat the house and it doesn't have separate circuit pumps for hot water and central heating which was the subject of another thread.

I am loathed however to get rid of a perfectly working boiler than is old tech and therefore less susceptible to breaking down than a modern boiler. Maybe your experience is different but anything with electronic circuitry built since 2006 and the banning of lead solder tends to break down more readily. That is my understanding and experience.

Quick question. People are selling old working relays for around £10 on Ebay rather than £28 new shipped. I'm thinking a relay either works or it doesn't. Rather save money and put it to a RGI to come out and clean the boiler. What's your thoughts on that please?

 

[Agile]

You should be able to buy a new relay to fit that boiler as an electronic component for around £10.

I never recommend trying to use second hand parts.

But how do you know your boiler case is not leaking?

A new boiler would save about 35% on gas costs and that would pay for a new boiler in 2-3 years!

Tony

 

[rwiddowson]

It's having the money up front though. I've had a quick look at some info on the net in the meantime.

I have CO detector located within the recommended distance from the boiler and also used a lit jos-stick (although I am NOT a hippy I bought one specifically as someone told me this was a good way to test) to ascertain whether or not the vapour would move around the perimeter if affected by leaking positive pressure.

I'll also get an RGI to check this if I can find one that will do the cleaning. I think they have a specific tester to check this.

 

[Terrywookfit]

The 10/16 had a stated input of 20.9 kw and an output to water of 16.1kw. giving an efficiency of 77%.
Also one of the most reliable boilers ever made.
A 2-3 year payback on installation and 35% gas savings.............

I think not !!!!!!

 

[rwiddowson]

Hi Terry

Mine is the 16/22. Not sure if this has a bearing. I read somewhere it should be treated as Grade F efficiency in the CIBSE guide (i.e. 69%).

Not sure what output is but it's mroe than sufficient. Only ever run it on less than 1 on the dial in winter.

 

[HootingOwl]

Upgrade the controls, not the boiler. The 35% savings exist only on British Gas marketing materials. Great boiler but potential killer. Get a CO detector/alarm.
Wishing you well with your business woes and hope you get through to the other side relatively unscathed.

 

[AGAS]

TBH mate your dealing with a positive pressure boiler which is another matter of concern , and i don't think you would get a RGI to look at it , as someone a has said already to me I'm a vary suspicious person . but do yourself a favour and get yourself a rgi to sort , your not the only one reading this info so no advice can be given . but good luck for the future thou .

 

[rwiddowson]

AGAS.

I find your comments offensive. You're basically calling me a downright liar! You don't even know me yet you call me "mate" and offend me. So kick me in the teeth whilst I am down and then wish me luck. Sounds a bit twisted to me.

Hooting Owl.

Thanks for the advice. It is something I do intend to look into at some point when finances allow.

I am taking Npower to the Ombusdmans as they have technically bound me into their extortionate tariffs for years overpaying approx. £1200 a year.

 

[AGAS]

wow , one minute you fooking say you won't do gas works because it " DANGEROUS " , then say you are , and your doing it anyway so who is the LIAR.
and believe it or not i was concerned of your safety because your dealing with a FOOKING DANGEROUS BOILER . kick you in the teeth how the fook did i do that ??????? . to get a rgi to check it , as if you think were going to believe that when you LIE in the first place . i meant in no way to kick you in the teeth as you say and get off your fooking high horse and its not mine or anyones else fault that your skint . if calling you mate is twisted i think you need to see someone . sort it out man . WTF