Power to outbuilding, yet another thread.

[SUNRAY]

Tomorrow I'm surveying/quoting for a solution. The problem as I understand it is some sort of communal building for some flats has power and light fed from one of the flats and that owner is complaining about the cost of supplying it.

Obvs. I haven't seen whats there yet or got to the bottom of the problem, off the top of my head I have only the one thought of installing a private meter and share the cost between the properties.

Any other suggestions to help me along the way would be very welcome.

 

[JohnW2]

Obvs. I haven't seen whats there yet or got to the bottom of the problem, off the top of my head I have only the one thought of installing a private meter and share the cost between the properties.

It's obviously not really an electrical question. You can certainly indicate to them that what you describe is one thing you could do, but it would be up to them to see if they could sort out a mutually-acceptable and formal/legal was of 'arranging' it (payment-wise).

Presumably there is no 'communal/landlord supply/meter', or anything like that, and I also presume that you/they would not want the cost of getting 'a new supply' - so it sounds as if you'd still end up having to feed the private meter from one of the flat's meters - so the owner of that flat would presumably require some formalised reassurance that he/she would actually get paid by the other properties!

Kind Regards, John

 

[SUNRAY]

It's obviously not really an electrical question. You can certainly indicate to them that what you describe is one thing you could do, but it would be up to them to see if they could sort out a mutually-acceptable and formal/legal was of 'arranging' it (payment-wise).

Presumably there is no 'communal/landlord supply/meter', or anything like that, and I also presume that you/they would not want the cost of getting 'a new supply' - so it sounds as if you'd still end up having to feed the private meter from one of the flat's meters - so the owner of that flat would presumably require some formalised reassurance that he/she would actually get paid by the other properties!

Kind Regards, John

Yes that exactly my current thinking.

 

[SUNRAY]

It's a tricky one.

It is a semi detatched house which has been extended and divided into 3 flats, the original owner sold 2 off on lease and lived in the other. There is a building down the garden known as the bin store which backs onto what was originally a double garage but since the neighbour built across the doors [I don't know about the history/legality] is now used by one of the other flats as a woodworking shop.

Power to the outbuilding is supplied by a D32 MCB in the original owners flat, in the bin store is a meter, fuse box [old with ceramic rewireable 15A size fuses] and PIR light which comes on whenever the door is opened. One fuse feeds the light, 4 others feed through the wall to the workshop.

Owner died and the flat has been purchased on 99 year lease, included in the lease is an agreement to pay 1/3 of all costs of maintenance etc including power to bin store. Leassor appears to be wholly in the name of a solicitor and new lessee has had no results trying to claim the power cost from them. The workshop user is saying he has never had to pay for electricity and doesn't intend to and the other flat is being leassed by a big company as a bolt hole and are not interested. Current bin store power is about 650KWh since September when they realised their bill was quite high.

As you say John not really an electrical issue, but I suspect will be an electrical solution.

As it happens the 3 meters are in a... let's call it a brick built meter cupboard and the feed to the outbuilding [con or split con] passes through it to the CU the other side of the wall. I was so tempted to simply move it from the current source to the users 60A fused switch.

In the meantime I've suggested changing the MCB to a really small one like 1 or 2A.

 

[DetlefSchmitz]

This can't end well. If I were the electrician I would not get involved. They don't need an electrician at the moment, first they need a legal practitioner. If I were in the position of having to pay for someone else's electricity, I'd be tempted to do things that would probably get me into trouble.

 

[SUNRAY]

This can't end well. If I were the electrician I would not get involved. They don't need an electrician at the moment, first they need a legal practitioner. If I were in the position of having to pay for someone else's electricity, I'd be tempted to do things that would probably get me into trouble.

I totally agree. As a landlord myself, I like to think I have a reasonable understanding of leases [well I really hope I have] and read through his. I found nothing to say he has to supply the power to The Bin Store, only to pay 1/3 of it. It is a brand new lease and I suspect it is simple a copy and paste of one of the others. So I think he could quite happily disconnect it from his CU. I see no mention of the workshop on his lease.


I've left him with several options as electrical solutions.

 

[SUNRAY]

I was passing by this property tonight and 'popped in' to see if anything has happened on this.
The lessee has taken to turning off his main switch when he goes to work so for well over 40 hours a week there is nothing recorded on the meter. Lo and behold it kicked off, the police were called who in turn called in energy provider.

 

[SUNRAY]

An update to this one.
The energy provider found nothing wrong with the installation and left site having inspected and resealed everthing.

This was referred to a solicitor who sent magistrates 14 days notices to all parties that the service to the bin store was to be withdrawn from the existing source including posting on the bin store and workshop doors. It was worded to very carefully include any other circuits on the meter and fuse box.

Carrying a copy of the notice I informed the guy working in the workshop that I was going to isolate the supply at 12 noon which was over an hour away [on the 16th day]. He tried to tell me, in very rude words, it was illegal etc. I flipped the MCB just after 12 when it went quiet and showing <1A [and my lessee witnessed him talking on the phone with no machinary running] and waited and for the Police to arrive.

Full marks to the 2 Police personel, a guy about 12 and girl about 14 or so it seemed to me, they read through all of the correspondence and photos of posted orders and waited while I removed the wiring from the flats CU, leaving it coiled and labelled in the meter cupboard.

And the next bonus?
Police calmed Workshop user down and with them still there he asked what it would take to get power back on to his workshop. As it happened there is a wholesaler within 100m and I was able to change his 60A fused switch for a garage CU quite easily and by 2pm he was back in business with a lot less folded cash in his pocket and a report stating the fuse box in the bin store is out of date and requires replacement Copied also to Lessor.

 

[SUNRAY]

An update to this one.
The energy provider found nothing wrong with the installation and left site having inspected and resealed everthing.

This was referred to a solicitor who sent magistrates 14 days notices to all parties that the service to the bin store was to be withdrawn from the existing source including posting on the bin store and workshop doors. It was worded to very carefully include any other circuits on the meter and fuse box.

Carrying a copy of the notice I informed the guy working in the workshop that I was going to isolate the supply at 12 noon which was over an hour away [on the 16th day]. He tried to tell me, in very rude words, it was illegal etc. I flipped the MCB just after 12 when it went quiet and showing <1A [and my lessee witnessed him talking on the phone with no machinary running] and waited and for the Police to arrive.

Full marks to the 2 Police personel, a guy about 12 and girl about 14 or so it seemed to me, they read through all of the correspondence and photos of posted orders and waited while I removed the wiring from the flats CU, leaving it coiled and labelled in the meter cupboard.

And the next bonus?
Police calmed Workshop user down and with them still there he asked what it would take to get power back on to his workshop. As it happened there is a wholesaler within 100m and I was able to change his 60A fused switch for a garage CU quite easily and by 2pm he was back in business with a lot less folded cash in his pocket and a report stating the fuse box in the bin store is out of date and requires replacement Copied also to Lessor.

 

[scousespark]

For a landlord/AV engineer, you get involved in some weird electrical situations. I would have run a mile, rather than ‘popped in’.

 

[SUNRAY]

For a landlord/AV engineer, you get involved in some weird electrical situations. I would have run a mile, rather than ‘popped in’.

Ah yes but a big part of my 'reputation' is not being a FIIFOO.

Having been made redundant 5 times I've tended to move to something different, but the knowledge and tooling is still there [albeit outdated]. Added to that had always been my fathers hobby of public address which I wholeheartedly adopted and expanded to various electronic interests.

My work since 2005 had in the main been panel building/commercial electrical as a self employed subby.

So yes very varied.

Since I posted earlier I've been asked if the bin store meter can be rewired to only measure the bin store light. Probably not worth it for a 1W PIR and 2x 10W LED floods which are only active with the doors open plus 30 seconds and they have door closers fitted.

EDITTED: to delete too much info.