Powerflush resulted in leak: liability for carpet damage?

[Umbar]

You seem like a very reasonable person and I am sure your plumber will be the same

I have been powerflushing for many years and once we had a huge leak luckily it was on lino floor in the kitchen unfortunately the radiator was in such bad condition internally ,there was no way of knowing this .

The customer had this explained that pinholes leaky valves etc are possible and better to happen whilst a plumber is here then when no one is home


Take what Agile says with a pinch of salt ,whats this about ten years I have seen systems which are well over that in age and never needed any kind of flushing or chemicals.

The bonus is the new rad will be ultra efficient and modern and thus convect heat alot more efficiently too

Thank you for that!

The leak you had to deal with sounds like a bit of a nightmare; as you say, just as well you were there for it.

And thanks also for pointing out yet another real positive to come out of this.

 

[Agile]

I said that many will not powerflush rads over 10 years old.
Thats because of the risks of leaks being higher.

The risk is higher when acidic chemicals are used. However, PF is more effective when stronger chemicals are used.

Tony

 

[Happyplumber]

check system.use the correct chemicals and always be aware there is chance of leaks and make sure you are prepared for them


It is not rocket science and nothing to do with ten years

 

[DP]

Umbar, OK the leak was at the radiator, so plumber could have put a sheet under the radiator to protect your Axminster. What is a leak had occured at another radiator? How much protection does he need to provide?

A radiator should sustain a pressure of 6 bar, very much doubt the machine even produces three bar pressure. The way I see it is, a system is being flushed to remove sediment etc from the system which is there due to system corroding. This corrosion could be anywhere in the system so is impossible to protect against spillage unless the whole house was tanked to guard against leaks from the system..

 

[Onetap]

A radiator should sustain a pressure of 6 bar, very much doubt the machine even produces three bar pressure.

A new radiator should sustain a pressure of 6 bar.

The black magnetite sludge which you are trying to remove with the powerflush is the corrosion products from the oxidized steel surface of the inside of the radiators. The fact that it needs a powerflush also tells you that the radiators are corroded internally. They may withstand 6 bar, they may fail at 0.06 bar.

The plumber can't reasonably be held responsible for corrosion that has taken place over the previous few years.

 

[FiremanT]

A radiator should sustain a pressure of 6 bar, very much doubt the machine even produces three bar pressure.


Excerpt from:

http://www.kamco.co.uk/DetailedInstructionsPF.htm

Can you over pressurise a system, and cause joints to leak?
A. No. The Quantum is a centrifugal type pump. What it can't push through a system, it will simply re-circulate in the tank. Maximum pressure is less than two bars. It is the flow rate through a system that is important when power flushing.

 

[Onetap]

Excerpt from:

http://www.kamco.co.uk/DetailedInstructionsPF.htm

Can you over pressurise a system, and cause joints to leak?
A. No. The Quantum is a centrifugal type pump. What it can't push through a system, it will simply re-circulate in the tank. Maximum pressure is less than two bars. It is the flow rate through a system that is important when power flushing.

I'd disagree with that. 2 bars will be excessive for some systems, you'll know when it starts leaking.

Most of the systems suffering corrosion are, or were, open vented systems that have a long-standing leak or pumping over problem. The working pressure may be less than 0.5 bar and 2 bar may cause it to pop. Some leaks will be plugged with the magnetite sludge and removing the sludge will make the leak visible.

 

[FiremanT]

Excerpt from:

http://www.kamco.co.uk/DetailedInstructionsPF.htm

Can you over pressurise a system, and cause joints to leak?
A. No. The Quantum is a centrifugal type pump. What it can't push through a system, it will simply re-circulate in the tank. Maximum pressure is less than two bars. It is the flow rate through a system that is important when power flushing.

I'd disagree with that. 2 bars will be excessive for some systems, you'll know when it starts leaking.


TRUE, and I didn't mean to disagree with that. I was comenting on DP's(?) 3 bar comment, and only as a matter of information.

However,the scrubbing action is as likely to reveal a poor section. At the ned of the day, a leak in these circumstances is likley to be exacerbated more quickly,but it would only be a matter of time........

Add to all that, most would be hooked to a combi.

 

[ChrisR]

Yes he should have warned you, but it wouldn't really have made a difference..


As you've had one radiator "go" though, some of the rest might be getting near the same state.
Think about changing the rest, it probably wouldn't be as expensive as you may fear. You can help by doing some research - measure them carefully for length and see if you buy the exact same size, or slightly shorter.

 

[Umbar]

Umbar, OK the leak was at the radiator, so plumber could have put a sheet under the radiator to protect your Axminster. What is a leak had occured at another radiator? How much protection does he need to provide?

Well I guess that was the question I intended to ask, only you put it rather more clearly than I managed. Now I know what the usual practice is, I'm completely comfortable with the fact he didn't provide that protection; I asked the question because I didn't know if he should have done.

And you make a very good point that a leak could have happened anywhere else in the system, so even if he had protected under all the rads it wouldn't have been a guarantee.

 

[Umbar]

As you've had one radiator "go" though, some of the rest might be getting near the same state.

That's such a good, if worrying, point! Thank you very much.

 

[Agile]

Merely putting a plastic sheet under one rad will do little if it starts leaking apart from moving the leaked water to the edge of the sheet.

Unless an observant apprentice is stationed in front of EVERY rad during power flushing then its likely to be up to 15 minutes before its noticed. Thats 15 li if its leaking at only 1 li/min.

To better protect the carpet a plastic sheet covered with a duvet would be needed. Even that will not cover every eventuality.

Tony

 

[mickyg]

Just as point of interest I've measured my PF machine pressure, its a Norstrom Proflush. Its around 1 bar on the outlet and depending on system usually returns at about 0.5bar. So you shouldnt expect machine pressure to cause leaks. They are designed for high flow rate/low pressure circulation.

 

[Agile]

Leaks are caused by holes in rads.

If there are no holes then any rad should easily withstand about 2 Bar.

Those who could afford The Beast will probably be able to create more pressure during power flushing.

Tony