POWERFLUSH....................worth the money?

[Agile]

From a customer perspective I do have to say that it does sound reasonable that the BG expert who is assessing the system should have the necessary skills and competence to be able to identify any significant installation defects.

Customers are not experts and have to rely on the skills of the professionals employed by BG or their other heatinf engineer they choose to employ.

If I make a mistake in a fault diagnosis then I complete the repair at the original price that I quoted. That seems only reasonable for the customer!

Tony

 

[geoff@cetltd]

powerflushes, though necessary when fitting a new boiler, tend to be a rip off

 

[micky p]

powerflushes, though necessary when fitting a new boiler, tend to be a rip off

depends on how much you charge of course. You have to remember most decent powerflushing pumps are approx £900 + so you have to charge £50 -£60 just for hire of the pump or what ever per job to get your money back for the equipment. I can't see £600 in a domestic powerflush tho. £300 seems more like the price for most domestic properties.

 

[nickso]

From a customer perspective I do have to say that it does sound reasonable that the BG expert who is assessing the system should have the necessary skills and competence to be able to identify any significant installation defects.

Customers are not experts and have to rely on the skills of the professionals employed by BG or their other heatinf engineer they choose to employ.

If I make a mistake in a fault diagnosis then I complete the repair at the original price that I quoted. That seems only reasonable for the customer!

Tony

perhaps tony. but not all installation defects will be immediately obvious or significant at the time and a lone engineer has no authority to note down on the FSU that there are no defects.

example that happened to me:- 20 year old cast iron boiler. one day the boiler starts falling off the wall. probably only halted by the balanced flue. customer now expects BG to replace their wall and rehang the boiler at their cost. on further inspection the boiler is held on only by a few red rawlplugs into normal plasterboard. install defect-not covered. now tell me how an engineer is supposed to prevent that situation?

as a sign of good will that job was offered a repair on a part labour basis to cover some of my time and the joiner who would fix the wall.

mickey...i agree it is overpriced. £568 i believe is the new price but remember the customer will often get pipework cut and cleared for free if they take the flush. its also guaranteed for life with two small provisions. i doubt you are offering that for £300.

 

[micky p]

From a customer perspective I do have to say that it does sound reasonable that the BG expert who is assessing the system should have the necessary skills and competence to be able to identify any significant installation defects.

Customers are not experts and have to rely on the skills of the professionals employed by BG or their other heatinf engineer they choose to employ.

If I make a mistake in a fault diagnosis then I complete the repair at the original price that I quoted. That seems only reasonable for the customer!

Tony

perhaps tony. but not all installation defects will be immediately obvious or significant at the time and a lone engineer has no authority to note down on the FSU that there are no defects.

example that happened to me:- 20 year old cast iron boiler. one day the boiler starts falling off the wall. probably only halted by the balanced flue. customer now expects BG to replace their wall and rehang the boiler at their cost. on further inspection the boiler is held on only by a few red rawlplugs into normal plasterboard. install defect-not covered. now tell me how an engineer is supposed to prevent that situation?

as a sign of good will that job was offered a repair on a part labour basis to cover some of my time and the joiner who would fix the wall.

mickey...i agree it is overpriced. £568 i believe is the new price but remember the customer will often get pipework cut and cleared for free if they take the flush. its also guaranteed for life with two small provisions. i doubt you are offering that for £300.

well if they want lifetime guarantee on the system then i would want more than £568 for a powerflush. I was just saying this is what i charge for a powerflush up in sunny lancashire. If i'm doing it at the same time as a boiler change then there is some room for discount. If there is pipework that wants cutting out then so be it but i would then that would be extra if it becomes a lot bigger job. If it all can be done in the day then the labour stays the same.

I'm not having a go a BG pricing . I have my price and they have theres. I have confidence in my own work and can hold my head up high.

They are many people ou there that make no effort to clean a system when replacing a boiler.

 

[GasAid]

@nickso: BG Engineers are not given adequate time to work safely; let alone to do a truly market leader job... So for many a sale is a much easier path... I do not deny that hidden defects will be impossible to pick up upon; especially like that in you example... But what we are getting at here; is pipe configurations; poor jointing; and poor workmanship.

In my time with BG I signed in more first visit contracts with essential checks and had to leave the "BG Checks" as time was not given; as a central london engineer where the area is highly under-staffed and poorly resourced; 12 jobs per day to hit performance targets does not allow you the time; as such; 90% of installation defects are missed... When they go wrong; it then leaves the customer with an over-priced charge (Overpricing statement is worked out on contract cost minus service charge plus quotation rate).

What I find is that IF the BG Engineer is asked to fulfill a FULL service check and verification of the system as per the British Gas Operational Procedures - Which DOES include water samples and a lot of points; then the parents of the thread starter will not be left with "hidden" and "suprise" charges at a later date.


As for legal grounds; British Gas will settle on agreement on the majority of installation defects when questioned because the lower management (Field Managers and the newly appointed Tech Service Managers) understand the real life of the industry.... BG Engineers are well trained and well tooled - Unfortunately; they are just not given the time.... In this instance and many others, you would be well within your rights to request a full service and installation defect check.... Once noted and agreed upon by the checking engineer; a contract is drawn and agreed upon... In a court of law; BG would not have a leg to stand on - Hence why they settle so easily.

Sorry to burst your bubble matey; but the blue flames in my blood were drained a long time before I left them.

 

[nickso]

@nickso: BG Engineers are not given adequate time to work safely; let alone to do a truly market leader job... So for many a sale is a much easier path... I do not deny that hidden defects will be impossible to pick up upon; especially like that in you example... But what we are getting at here; is pipe configurations; poor jointing; and poor workmanship.

In my time with BG I signed in more first visit contracts with essential checks and had to leave the "BG Checks" as time was not given; as a central london engineer where the area is highly under-staffed and poorly resourced; 12 jobs per day to hit performance targets does not allow you the time; as such; 90% of installation defects are missed... When they go wrong; it then leaves the customer with an over-priced charge (Overpricing statement is worked out on contract cost minus service charge plus quotation rate).

What I find is that IF the BG Engineer is asked to fulfill a FULL service check and verification of the system as per the British Gas Operational Procedures - Which DOES include water samples and a lot of points; then the parents of the thread starter will not be left with "hidden" and "suprise" charges at a later date.


As for legal grounds; British Gas will settle on agreement on the majority of installation defects when questioned because the lower management (Field Managers and the newly appointed Tech Service Managers) understand the real life of the industry.... BG Engineers are well trained and well tooled - Unfortunately; they are just not given the time.... In this instance and many others, you would be well within your rights to request a full service and installation defect check.... Once noted and agreed upon by the checking engineer; a contract is drawn and agreed upon... In a court of law; BG would not have a leg to stand on - Hence why they settle so easily.

Sorry to burst your bubble matey; but the blue flames in my blood were drained a long time before I left them.

no arguments for most of that...it looks like we left for the same reasons.

however your old patch and mine are poles apart in terms of customer base and population. we both had the same problems of time versus peformance. we both know you dont need to complete 12 jobs to make performance over 8 hours.

i agree most "BG" service checks are left undone by probably 99% of the workforce. my water sample test in most cases consisted of opening a rad vent. some dont even do that. i would also be bold and say 90% of open vented systems are piped incorrectly and i do believe some customers expect to much when they get told of an install defect. at the end of the day they should realise they were going to have to pay for any defects found in the first place...nothing has changed a few years down the line when an engineer finds it, except now they want something for free.

in my experience it was a rare occurrence anyway and you are right, the management usually bent over double to accommodate the customer rather than backing their engineer. just because something was missed doesnt mean it isnt an install defect though, and an engineers report will make no difference to the terms and conditions if BG wanted to fight it...but thats not in their best interest.

i always treated it as job and nothing more, i certainly wasnt going to make engineer of the year (wouldnt want to be that puppet). i was paid to fix things and if i made performance it was a bonus...i rarely did because of the way i did it. never got threatened with the sack because of it though and i think more BG engineers need to realise its not all about the peformance.

 

[GasAid]

@Nickso: 100% agreed; except with one thing; what an engineer writes on his job report is admissible. The engineer is a representative of the company; if they clearly state that the system has no visible installation defects; then it is deemed as an "expert opinion on behalf of the contract provider"... Something that cannot be tracked back upon... Grey areas exist when a defect is hidden or where it has become part of the fixing.



And back to the thread.....