POWERFLUSH....................worth the money?

[Boxerman]

My 75yr old parents have a problem with their central heating, all the upstairs rads are cold but all but one of the downstairs ones are working. Bleeding the cold ones had air for 5 seconds or so then nothing at all. British Gas Engineer has recommended a Powerflush @ £600 but I've heard mixed reports about them. They also have the 'problem' of having steel rather than copper pipework (which I believe they experimented with in the 1970's when the house was built.

My parents are pensioners with a pensioners budget so don't want them to spend £600 unless necessary and don't want it to lead to potential further problems.

Any help and advice very gratefully received.

Thanks

 

[ollski]

I very much doubt they would actually powerflush the system but do it by hand instead, its too much of a risk on the old steel pipe. Weather or not its needed can only really be decided on site and even then it can be a tricky call.

 

[weareleeds]

Ask for a quote to repipe system & see if they throw in a free powerflush

 

[nickso]

if no water or air comes out then there is a chance the cold feed is blocked. i would get them to investigate that first if it wasnt mentioned.

chances are if hes recommended a flush then its needed but as ollski says its a tough call from the internet.

repiping is likely to cost a lot but would probably solve a lot of future problems if the corrosion is so bad its now blocking the pipework.

ollski whats the problem with flushing the steel pipe....im not aware of any issues with that. would be handy to know as we have a fair bit of it here

 

[JohnD]

50p says that the system is not filling up with water to replace the gap left when the rads were bled.

See if the Feed & Expansion tank in the loft has water in it. If it does, there is probably a blockage in the pipe from this tank where it runs down and joins the rest of the system.

If it is a water shortage in the system, then it is possible to re-fill it by puttting a hose on a drain-off point. This will at least get the syst going.

I am not used to steel pipe systems. On a copper pipe system I now how to find and cut out the blockage, but not on steel.

If you have a complete blockage, then a chemical cleaner will not usually attack it, because there is no flow to carry the chemical into the blockage.

However if water slowly trickles down from the F&E into the system, then you could use a cleaning chemical.

p.s. BG are always recommending Powerflushing because they make a lot of money out of it. That doesn't mean it's always wrong, of course.

 

[Boxerman]

Thanks for your replies, managed to get a plumber (mate of a mate) to come and have a look at it this evening and hopeully he'll sort it out.

I'm hoping to eventually get them a brand new system but as I believe that this will involve replacing all the pipework with copper then it wont be cheap.

 

[Boxerman]

Update

Well the heating systems has pretty much been condemned due to the steel pipework being 'knackered'.

Can you folks give me your honest opinions on British Gas as he seems to have been persuaded that they're the best people to fit a new system. They also know how to charge !!!

Any plumbers in the Harrogate area feel free to send me your contact details.

 

[nickso]

knackered isnt a very technical term.....what was the exact diagnosis?

 

[Soggy_weetabix]

If its a 1970 installation, was passivated zinc installed?

David

 

[Boxerman]

knackered isnt a very technical term.....what was the exact diagnosis?

Parent's tell me that the plumber stated that he is very puzzled, there is a blockage somewhere in the pipework system but no idea where, nothing coming out of the radiators, neither air or water, but pump is working.

I guess flushing the systems could unblock it but am I correct in thinking that flushing a steel system will damage and expose all the joints ?

 

[ChrisR]

Steel pipes can be wafer thin. If it's your inheritance( ) then spend the money and replace it.
Flushing, power or otherwise, doesn't always work. You would get some sort of guarantee from BG, but they can't do magic!
For a replacement system, BG are usually good, usually expensive. Get 3 quotes. Independents can be better and cheaper, or terrible and a rip-off.

 

[nickso]

tough call this one.

like chris says if you got BG to flush it you would get a lifetime guarantee as long as your contract didnt lapse and you could prove you inhibited the system on a regular basis.

the guarantee wouldnt cover the steel pipes corroding and although the first time a steel pipe burst they would repair/replace it they would certainly advise you to repipe it thereby removing the contract cover to the pipework.

new BG systems are pretty much always the most expensive but few independants take into account the 3 or 5 year reduced servive cover that is offered only at boiler renewal and is added onto the final price if you buy it.. having said that they can be pricey for a straight swop too. get 3 quotes and weigh up exactly what you get in each one, try to find info on the boilers you get offered either from us or from a search on the interweb.

the one bonus with BG is that if its within the warranty/guarantee period and a fault occurs you can just keep phoning them to come round until it gets sorted. some independants might not even turn up once.

 

[GasAid]

After recently leaving BG for some of their policies regarding this kind of stuff; if purchased; the engineer who will arrive at the job for the flush; should turn it down as too risky; BG have a lot of young engineers now that are bred to sell powerflushes...

Before going any further; try backfilling the system through the open vent pipe manually... If the system can then be bled; you'll know the problem lies within the cold feed which you could then get replaced whilst you decide on the new system without freezing your parents.

I would never recommend a powerflush on passivated piepwork; simply too risky as the seems can split and as ChrisR stated; they will not necessarily be thick enough to take the powerflush machine pounding chemicals around the system.



New systems are always impossible to recommend a good solution for your personal circumstances over the Internet, however... For the peace of mind and knowing that your parents will need the heat; the BG install will give them the breakdown care... Alternatively; you could get the system installed by a 3rd party registered installer; then; 2 days after; get BG to cover the system with their HomeCare Product - Once on contract; they will then have to provide the "after-sale" service on any breakdown as long as the installer did a "reasonable" job.

You can ask that on their "First Visit Inspection" that you want the engineer to verify there are no installation defects; once verified you cannot get caught out with the clause which states "We do not cover installation defects"... It's cheeky; but believe me in the essence that you will not be the only one doing it as I dealt with lots of customers with obvious installation defects which the first visit never picked up; but was happily written down by the BG Engineer - Ensure your parents get him to type it into his FSU (The job report screen of the laptop they carry). Then their WIMIS system will have it on record which can be pulled up at anytime under the data protection act.

 

[ollski]

GasAid it will often work but if there is an installation defect that obviously existed before the contract started it should still be chargable as it was obviously an oversight on the part of the first visit engineer. Often sorted under goodwill though depending on cost.

 

[nickso]

After recently leaving BG for some of their policies regarding this kind of stuff; if purchased; the engineer who will arrive at the job for the flush; should turn it down as too risky; BG have a lot of young engineers now that are bred to sell powerflushes...

Before going any further; try backfilling the system through the open vent pipe manually... If the system can then be bled; you'll know the problem lies within the cold feed which you could then get replaced whilst you decide on the new system without freezing your parents.

I would never recommend a powerflush on passivated piepwork; simply too risky as the seems can split and as ChrisR stated; they will not necessarily be thick enough to take the powerflush machine pounding chemicals around the system.



New systems are always impossible to recommend a good solution for your personal circumstances over the Internet, however... For the peace of mind and knowing that your parents will need the heat; the BG install will give them the breakdown care... Alternatively; you could get the system installed by a 3rd party registered installer; then; 2 days after; get BG to cover the system with their HomeCare Product - Once on contract; they will then have to provide the "after-sale" service on any breakdown as long as the installer did a "reasonable" job.

You can ask that on their "First Visit Inspection" that you want the engineer to verify there are no installation defects; once verified you cannot get caught out with the clause which states "We do not cover installation defects"... It's cheeky; but believe me in the essence that you will not be the only one doing it as I dealt with lots of customers with obvious installation defects which the first visit never picked up; but was happily written down by the BG Engineer - Ensure your parents get him to type it into his FSU (The job report screen of the laptop they carry). Then their WIMIS system will have it on record which can be pulled up at anytime under the data protection act.

no they are not "bred to sell powerflushes", if the water quality is obviously poor or another defect points to that as a solution they will quote the customer for it. whats wrong with that?.

your install defect cheat will only work if you can disprove that the engineer took all reasonable steps to "find" a defect. things will be missed that possibly couldnt be found. the "We do not cover installation defects" clause will still stand in most cases no matter what you get put on the FSU.