Price of wooden sash v uPVC window

Joined
19 Feb 2015
Messages
690
Reaction score
4
Country
United Kingdom
I priced some 'regular' double-glazed uPVC windows against double-glazed uPVC sash windows with the same glass.

uPVC sash were about 2.4 times more expensive.

As I won't get to ask anyone till next week, how do you think a pine sash frame with the same double-glazed glass would compare price-wise, if I had them made by a local joiner?

Would it be similar to the 'regular' uPVC double-glazed price? Or more the price of the uPVC sash? Or more expensive again?
 
Sponsored Links
Casement £150-£200
Pvc sash £300-£400
Timber sash £900-1200

Thanks very much, that certainly clarifies things.

I suppose one other option is to renovate existing pine sash windows. That is, have them installed with the same double-glazing units and ensure they are sliding properly.They are currently painted shut.

Though since these windows are already installed, I don't know if the frames would have to be removed first. Also if it would be possible to foam around them to seal well with them in-situ?

I wonder roughly where this would be on the price-scale?
 
Sash overhaul, draught proofing etc without timber repairs
£250-£350 per window
 
Sponsored Links
Sash overhaul, draught proofing etc without timber repairs
£250-£350 per window

Would that exclude the cost of removal of the single pane and installation of the double-glazing unit?
 
suppose one other option is to renovate existing pine sash windows. That is, have them installed with the same double-glazing units and ensure they are sliding properly.They are currently painted shut.
There are several firms who sell most of the components you'll need, such as Reddiseals and Mighton. Double glazing can be an issue as conventional DG units are too thick (as well as too heavy in larger units). There are a number of firms now doing super-thin retro-fit DG units for the listed building/conservation area market. The alternative might be to refurb the sash box frame but replace the sliding sashes with ones designed to take standard (cheaper) DG units. If you change the glazing or sashes you'll need to replace the sash (counter) weights to take into account the increased weight

Though since these windows are already installed, I don't know if the frames would have to be removed first.
The sash boxes can generally be refurbed/repaired in situ. If you are going to DG you'll have to strip off the inner staff beads to get the lower sashes out in addition the parting beads to get the upper sashes out and allow access to the sash pockets (for access to the weights and cords). Both of these are generally scrap when you get them out, so budget for complete replacement, but the plus is that you can install draught strips in the new beadings

Also if it would be possible to foam around them to seal well with them in-situ?
DON'T. Surest way to completely cream cracker a sash window is to start spraying that cr@p into it! You are potentiallly spraying a setting foam inside the weight pockets (which aren't always well sealed, especailly after 100 years) in which the weights which counterbalance the glazed sashes run. See diagram below to show you what you are dealing with (that's a timber framed house, but masonry houses are very similar). The correct way is to remove the existing trowelling mastic and replace it


Cost will depend on what the windows actually need doing to them, but shouldn't be more than installing softwood top hung casements if you DIY. whilst looking a lot better in all probability. Follow the links and you'll be able to price it yourself
 
Thanks very much JobAndKnock for the detailed info. I've had a look at the links which are very helpful. Thanks very much for that!
 
Personally I would stay clear of modern pine/softwood whatever way you go forward.
It is nothing like the old slow grown and seasoned pine from years ago. I have seen modern stuff rot through in under a year.

At very least go for a hardwood.
 
Personally I would stay clear of modern pine/softwood whatever way you go forward.
It is nothing like the old slow grown and seasoned pine from years ago. I have seen modern stuff rot through in under a year.
Having refurbed a few sash windows since the 1970s I'd point out that the two worst areas for rot are the cill sections, which mainly tend to rot from the top downwards (the area where paint tends to bubble and crack as the result of neglect), and the water trap at the bottom of the outer beading (a minor design issue in traditional sash windows which face into the weather). Another area for rot is the bottom of the weights box and can often be directly linked to cracked or missing sections of mastic

Most modern window manufacturers install a hardwood sill in Agba or Ipe or the like to overcome the biggest defect and the water-trap problem can be dealt with by cutting the bottom inch or so of the outer bead flush to the sash box face so that water can drain away. The other rot at the bottom of the weight box is really down to neglect - mastic, which is used to seal round the window edges needs to be inspected every two or three years (or more regularly after hot summers which can dry it out and cause cracking) and repaired/replaced probably every 10 to 15 years

Do those three things, and keep-up with the required maintainance of any wooden window (i.e. painting it, see note below) and a sash window will do 100 or more years with ease. Most of the ones requiring major repairs do so because of lack of maintenance more than anything elso IMHO. It's also worth noting that concerns are now being voiced about the longevity of PVCu due to UV-degradation and it's beginning to look like these "maintainence-free miracles" will average 50 to 70 years lifespan - or less than a properly maintained softwood sash window should do

The main difference that first growth softwood timber yoe refer makes is that it is physically somewhat harder (so more wear resistant in the sash frames) and planes slightly better, but that's really about it. Much of it had been clear felled before WWI, let alone WWII, so it's a long time since it's been readily available. But at the end of the day it's still pine, and it will still rot if left exposed to the weather, especially if painted with the wrong paint

On the issue of painting it is worth noting that old windows which have not been painted since gawd only knows when, but which show signs of having been painted with oil-based, lead pigmented paints or chalk paints (so 50 or even 60 years since their last lick of paint) are often in much better condition than those which have been more regularly treated with modern (i.e. post-WWII) alkyd gloss paints. Lead is obviously dangerous and was quite rightly banned a while back, but non-alkyd paints, such as the linseed-oil base http://www.greenshop.co.uk/natural-paint-128/gloss-exterior-133/holkham-linseed-paints-174/]Holkham - now called All Back - have shown much improved life over what you can expect with modern gloss paints because they don't trap water and the wood weems better able to "breathe" and lose moisture naturally. I'd hazard a guess that your modern stuff which has rotted through was painted with modern alkyd paints and that was probably the biggest factor in their demise
 
Good informative post there JobAndKnock.
To be honest the one I saw rot out in a year was never top coated. We primed and undercoated it but the customer said they would gloss it.
They never did and a year later when they called us back I was able to pull out chunks of the cill with my fingers.

I'm afraid to say I am not a fan of wood outdoors as a general rule. I have fitted a couple of hundred modern timber windows. Pine, Oak, Mahogany, Idigbo (actually the Mahogany ones haven't had any problems) but most have always been a pain in the ass with constant callbacks for problems.

Most of this is probably due to the customers going for the cheapest windows they could find, Using the wrong paints and stains, And general lack of maintenance.

On the PVC front we will have to wait and see how long the modern stuff lasts. True the old stuff they hadn't perfected the UV stabilizers.

The PVC windows in my own house were fitted 23 years ago (before I got into windows) and they are like new. They are cleaned once every 2 months and I oil and grease the moving parts once a year.
As of yet I haven't had a single failed handle, Hinge or unit. Touch wood!
:LOL:
 

DIYnot Local

Staff member

If you need to find a tradesperson to get your job done, please try our local search below, or if you are doing it yourself you can find suppliers local to you.

Select the supplier or trade you require, enter your location to begin your search.


Are you a trade or supplier? You can create your listing free at DIYnot Local

 
Sponsored Links
Back
Top