Problems with Alpha CB24....

[coldinkent]

Hi, am nearly at my wits end with this boiler and was hoping whether anyone here could advise?! We have had intermittant hot and cold water for several days and the rads were getting slightly warm when the taps were running, even thought he heating was off.

A fitter from a well known company who we have insurance cover with has just fitted a new diverter valve. The boiler now seems completely knackered! I can only run the hot tap for a few seconds before the boiler starts to make a nasty grinding sound, and then it switches itself off. He is now saying it is the heating exchange that is broken, however, we only had a new one fitted just over a year ago. The engineer says that this can't be cleaned out because it is a sealed unit and that we need a new one.

Unfortunately this part is not covered under the cover they provide, and we would have to pay for yet another one. They are also talking about possibly powerflushing the system and fitting a magnaclean. Again, these are things not included in the cover and it all seems to be mounting up cost wise.

I know its hard to comment without seeing the actual boiler etc, but how can we go from having hot water (albeit intermittent!) and just needing a new valve, to needing more new parts and expensive procedures in the space of 2 hours?! Does this sound feasible to anyone?

 

[ChrisR]

Perfectly feasible.

He is now saying it is the heating exchange that is broken

B0ll0X. That would tend to let water out....

The engineer says that this can't be cleaned out because it is a sealed unit

B0ll0X. They have holes in, where the water goes....


Just a bit of air trapped I expect. Very very common.
Bleed the pump (loosen central screw until it dribbles) and make sure the automatic air vent is open. (fingers)
(Manual is on their website)

 

[Agile]

It does sound like a blocked plate HE.

We can clean these but BG dont as policy, they just replace them.

Dirt in the system is not covered on BG policies.

Clearly your system is dirty but it was not power flushed when this blocked the HE last year so the dirt has blocked it again. The diverter valve passing will have been due to the dirt as well.

Tony

 

[ChrisR]

a few seconds before the boiler starts to make a nasty grinding sound

Still makes me say try air, first.

Surely a BG engineer wouldn't say the heat exchanger was "broken"? Wouldn't put it past some others though.

 

[coldinkent]

Thanks Chris and Agile for your replies. My other half has been on the phone to BG and demanded they come back today as we haven't got hot water. He is adamant that he doesn't want to shell out more money on parts etc to BG to get the boiler working, especially seeing as it was working(ish) this morning before the engineer called and as he had paid for a new exchange last year. Now, I can understand that if you have dirt in the system then it will keep blocking the parts up until it is removed etc but unfortunately the OH is not technically minded and he is the one paying the bills....Can I insist that the engineer tries cleaning the HE before having to pay out for another new one? Poor OH is at work having a breakdown at the thought of having to pay BG hundreds of pounds to get this sorted....

 

[coldinkent]

Sorry, to clarify broken is my term. Fitter just says it needs changing....

 

[nickso]

could be either of the h/e's blocked.

the noise could be air in the pump or overheat due to no/low water movement.

BG will not fanny around cleaning h/e's. they will be replace but it sounds like they are only willing to do it on the proviso that you get any dirt removed from the system. its blocked before and they are covering their arse through the terms and conditions.

in the T+C's you are obliged to get the system flushed if its required but you are not obliged to get a magnaclean. thats one thing you could refuse if the cost is too much. i would get it done but i dont know your personal circumstances.

 

[coldinkent]

Thanks Nickso. Again to clarify, they haven't insisted we get the system flushed etc, it's just been mentioned as a possiblity. I personally can see the logic in getting the system flushed and possibly fitting some device (like the magnaclean) to try and minimise the dirt going round the system and hopefully prolong the parts in the boiler etc especially if a new HE has got to be fitted. However, the OH is footing the bills and simply can't afford to pay out for it all. We're skint (like most folks!!) He's pretty angry as he pays BG quite a bit in premiums each month already (again, I don't agree with this. I'd personally put the money into a saving accounts each month and then pay a local tradesmen to do the work, but as I don't pay the bills.... ).

 

[nickso]

hmm, some interesting statements there.

they haven't insisted we get the system flushed etc, it's just been mentioned as a possiblity

if he is refusing to replace the h/e on the grounds that it is not covered then, in this instance, it must not be covered due to the water quality. if it is not due to water quality then he has no other reason i can think of to not replace it.

if the system is obviously dirty he is within the t+c's to refuse the repair......usually provided that its been mentioned before.

However, the OH is footing the bills and simply can't afford to pay out for it all. We're skint (like most folks!!)

i can understand that and your postcode probably wont help with the price either. you could ask them to the h/e as a chargeable repair but it may actually be cheaper to get a third party to fit the h/e if that is the immediate fault. obviously that doesnt sort the underlying problem.

He's pretty angry as he pays BG quite a bit in premiums each month already

i dont mean to be rude to you personally, but that sounds like the rant of a man who hasnt checked his T+C's and is actually angry at himself for putting himself in this position. time and again i wonder why people pay for advice they dont take.

I'd personally put the money into a saving accounts each month and then pay a local tradesmen to do the work, but as I don't pay the bills.... ).

that can have its advantages and disadvantages like anything else. you are in a difficult situation and i dont envy you at all. speaking from experience you will get far further with BG if you complain to the management and treat the engineers with respect. like it or not they are going to do very little for an abusive customer and far more for a reasonable but upset one.

 

[coldinkent]

I am never rude to engineers (even the tradespeople that have been obviously trying to rip me off! ). My Dad's a builder and I treat trades people as I would like my Dad to be treated by customers i.e with politeness and the offer of a cup of tea! The OH is p***** with BG because we have had nothing but problems with them. I waited in all day for an engineer to call on Friday. Did he show up? No, he didn't and that's not the first time either I've waited in for a BG engineer and they've not shown. I've waited in countless times only to be told by the call centre that they never had an appointment booked! They advise one thing on the phone with regards to the policy and what it covers (OH has all the cover that they offer!Drains,pipes, electrical etc), then when the engineer eventually turns up they tell you that this that and the other isn't covered. The left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing as far as BG are concerned, and as far as my OH is concerned he thought he was doing the sensible thing for his family by taking out cover to protect against problems that he cannot fix. Rightly or wrongly, he feels that he's paid out for a service and not received a very good deal. Yes, it is time to change the cover! I'm sure other people's experience of BG's cover is better than ours (not just talking about the gas cover here), this is just my experience.

Anyhow, back to the boiler! If the HE needed changing I wouldn't be able to get heating right? The heating is working fine (been on for nearly an hour now no probs), boiler not making any noises etc. Still can't get the hot water to work properly. When the hot tap runs, the boiler makes a nasty noise (like a groaning air sound!) then taps runs cold. Any ideas?!

 

[coldinkent]

P.S we've never been advised that we HAD to have a system flush and ignored the engineer's advice.

 

[gas4you]

Maybe the engineer has not fitted the DV correctly. It has been done in the past and not just by BG engineers either. Ideal engineers spring to mind instantly on my patch

 

[coldinkent]

I wish I was in your parts gas4u, I love Norwich! Beats where I am hands down

Been on the phone to Alpha (why I didn't think of that earlier....?!) done a run down on what the boiler is and isn't doing and it would seem it would most likely be the HE (could possibly be the temperature sensor, but more likely the HE). We live in a hard water area and even though we only had a new one last year, it has probably furred up again already. Going to investigate ways of preventing the new HE from furring up now.....

BG coming back tomorrow (or the next day, or the next....who knows with them?!) to fit new part. Will get the engineer to check that the DV has been fitted correctly though first.

Thanks for all your replies.

 

[gas4you]

If it is the dhw side of the he then this is why he isn't insisting on a power flush.

Apart from on my Vaillants I would always want to see a water scale inhibitor fitted to the cold supply of a combi, but only the replaceable cartridge or podwer type though, e.g combigaurd or fernox whats its name, quantophos or something

 

[nickso]

BG coming back tomorrow (or the next day, or the next....who knows with them?!) to fit new part

are they though? do not take the word of the callcentre that an engineer is going to fit a part.....you may be disapointed if you do.

only an engineer or his manager can promise the fitting of anything.