Pub Wiring Setup Wrong

[Clitheroe]

HI this topic is regarding a previous one I wrote about a little while back so I thought it would be best to explain it in simpler detail in a fresh topic.

Anyway setup is as follows:

Cutout - Meter - 100mA main RCD - Henley

From Henley there is:

1) CU 100mA RCD mainswitch feeding part of flat and part of pub
2) CU Mains Isolator (no RCD) doing same as above
3) Submain (via Switchfuse) to cellar CU with 100mA RCD mainswitch

Earth goes into Cutout so is either TN-S/TN-C-S (no Earth rod in sight)

No 30mA RCD protection all CUs have MCBs

No RCDs are time delayed

This surely isn't right even in a commercial building?

Many Thanks

 

[RF Lighting]

no, they are wrong

Can you imagine if someone spills water on the kettle base in the flat and all the pub in plunged into darkness?

Where is the fire alarm powered from?

There is a reg (can't remember the number) which calls for proper discrimination, so minimal disruption is caused in the event of a fault

 

[sealeon]

Sounds like over time the installation has had a lot of new things added on so its got into a complete mess I would of thought it should have seperate board for pub and another for flat.Sounds like a big job finding out whats what and putting the right cables for the right place in the right boards dont quote me mind.Isnt the license agency responsible to sort it

 

[333rocky333]

Sounds like over time the installation has had a lot of new things added on so its got into a complete mess I would of thought

Sounds about right for pub wiring, or at least most of the ones i have seen.

Most pubs now are having to get inspections, to validate there insurance.
Is it one of the major brewers.

 

[sealeon]

same in banks and shops too

 

[RF Lighting]

For some reason pubs seem to be worse than shops etc.

I spent a few years as a pub fitting sparks, and the majority of installs were in dreadful condition.

We would reuse what wiring we could, but the majority of dist boards etc required replacing.

Sounds like yours in in a similar condition.

Are you familiar with commercial wiring practices?

What reason were you in there for?

It it a managed, leasehold or independant house?

 

[Clitheroe]

Sorry it is a public house restaurant I work at (kitchen work) Robinsons Brewery

I don't have any intention at all of actually getting involved doing anything with the wiring. I just noticed the setup when an electric urn tripped both the cellar and main RCDs cutting the entire building off.

Emergency lighting comes on though, not sure about fire alarm situation.

The cellar CU was added about 5 years back when a kitchen extension was built CU (Proteus) did have 30mA RCD but was changed to Wylex 100mA a few months back due to it tripping!!!

The owners stay in the flat above.

 

[RF Lighting]

It sounds like a typical pub bodge

It really want's sorting, but knowing what most pubs are like, it probably never will.

 

[333rocky333]

The latest thing now is a mob going round fitting jumbrellas with infra red heaters, for the smokers, they are overloading an already on the limit instalation and causing loads of problems.

most pubs also fall into Part p territory, but it dont seem to make much difference

100 amp single phase seems a bit small for a pub/ restaurant,
Do you not have steamer, combi ovens, micro wave, glass washer dishwasher,etc.

 

[sealeon]

The fire alarm should be okay should have battery back up not sure if electricity at work act would apply some how maybe but definatly needs sorting I think

 

[GaryMo]

There is a reg (can't remember the number) which calls for proper discrimination, so minimal disruption is caused in the event of a fault

314 - Division of Installation?

 

[ricicle]

531.2.9

 

[GaryMo]

531.2.9

That'll teach me to read the full text. I didn't realise it was discrimination between RCD's in series.

 

[Clitheroe]

Thanks everybody for your help

Regarding the load the oven and cooker is gas but we have a commercial type dishwasher, glasswasher, chip fryer and several ordinary plug in microwaves.

 

[mattylad]

The fire alarm may well still be a relay in a box.