Question about drooping bay window?

[cherryblossom123]

Hi,

I am having some work done on my house. Prior to purchase the surveyor flagged the slope with the following recommendation

"There are cracks both sides of the bay and the floor has dropped slightly. This is usually caused by inadequate support when the bay window frames are replaced. On a single visit, it is difficult to confirm that this has ceased. If it continues to drop, then the bay studwork and floor will need to be strapped back to the house wall. Assume a budget in the region of £1500.00"

I felt the drop towards the bay window and after purchasing so it wasn't unexpected.

This is what the slope looks like from the outside, and on the second photo I have added a straight purple line and also applied similarly to the neighbours which doesn't appear to drop at all. In particular notice the red tiles going underneath the purple line on the second photo. You may need to zoom the photo to see it better but if you do it should be clear. Alternatively just consider the left hand window (when viewing from the street/left hand side of the photo) of my property vs my neighbour. On mine you can see the top left corner of that window clearly, but you cannot see the top right corner as it is obscured by the sloping window from the bay above, unlike my neighbours in which you can see both

https://imgur.com/sulUbZ6

https://imgur.com/pj9PCiH

The builder has been working on it today, to be honest I know next to nothing about building work, so apologies if I am not making much sense, I explained the drop and gave the above quote to my builder which is great.

He has been in today and explained to me what the plan was but I didn't fully understand (which is on me to be honest, the rest of the work I've had done is coming along nicely so no complaints!), at the moment the job is still in progress and it looks like this:

https://imgur.com/5uD9gdR

https://imgur.com/jHf2dwo

I'm unsure if we are expecting anything further to be added in terms of support or if the two pillars will just be removed.

My questions are:

1) Are these metal poles that installed at the moment just pushing the floorboards up where they had dropped before the bay window or is this solution looking like it would actually raise the entire bay window structure. The builder mentioned something about joists and bracing, but I'm not sure to be fair (again that's on me). My concern is that if it just makes the floor level in the room with the bay window it could be okay now but get worse over time? I'd prefer the whole structure to be sound - and to be fair it may be fine already and that the metal poles can just push the floor boards flat, in which case maybe a solution like this is okay. Or perhaps this will actually raise the whole structure, I genuinely don't know.

2) The floor of the room with the bay window is more straight now (not perfect yet, but better for definite), with less of a drop/noticeable sagging/drooping into the bay window, I'm assuming this is as a result of the metal poles and whatever else they have added to prop the floor boards up. However looking from the outside of the property, the red tiles are still completely the same as before, with the downward sloping angle that can be seen in the second photo. I'm not sure even if the bay window is lifted and supported properly whether those tiles will still be at that sloping angle. I suppose it doesn't matter if it is just cosmetic, and the room floor is flat and the bay window is supported fully (I was hoping to put some seating next to/possibly in the bay window). In future I had planned to replace those red tiles and maybe get something a little less tired looking. for example something like this:

https://imgur.com/VubzNzX

Will that be able to be done without having the sloping angle on it. I guess I'm asking is the sloping of the red tiles caused by the drooping bay window and if the bay window is fixed (as the builder is doing now) would we expect those tiles to also straighten out.

3) If the metal poles are just pushing up the floorboard of the room above to make the floor straight there, should the outside also be raised up somehow and supported?

I've been told this is a fairly common problem, and nothing to worry about, but I'm a bit over cautious/paranoid as it is my first home, and as I say I wanted to place some seating in the bay window and replace the tiles eventually. Oh and another thing I didn't notice the downstairs ceiling show any drooping or sloping, but the lower window is a bit hard to open and shut, I wonder if it could be related, having said that there are 2 windows that open one on top of the other and the top one opens fine, so perhaps that is something else.

I want to ensure that a) the floor is flat in the bedroom, b) the bay window is secure and feels secure (no feeling like walking in that area is going to damage anything or exacerbate some existing problem, c) the tiling on the front of the property can be completed in future and not have it sag like it currently is. I want it to be exactly like the neighbour were a straight line can be drawn without the tiles going off at an angle.

I hope all my questions make sense.

 

[23vc]

with the following recommendation

I did this for my brother a couple of years ago.

You can see the restraint straps in the top pic.

 

[cherryblossom123]

I did this for my brother a couple of years ago.
View attachment 381235

View attachment 381236

View attachment 381237

You can see the restraint straps in the top pic.

That looks great! I guess the builders will be doing something similar because they said something about straps but I wasn't too sure what they meant, and as I said i still have the metal supports there so they haven't finished that part yet.

Did you use the metal poles inside the house to prop the bay up and then istall the straps? I want to ask as well if you just propped the floorboards up so the floor is level or if the whole bay window is moved up?

if you look at my photos do you think it is the same approach or just raising the floorboards so it feels straight inside but the actual structure hasn't been raised?

And finally do you know about the red tiles on the outside, if it was the structure of the bay entirely being lifted would I not expect the red tiles to be flat? I.e. no sloping on the red tiles as you can see in my second picture compared to my neighbour? And would I be able to get it flat? Does something else need to be done to achieve that?

Thanks!!!

 

[23vc]

I didn’t prop. They’re acro props. It was more about preventing any further movement.

Guess yours may be taking a different approach, and jacking things back up if it’s dropped visibly, but if it’s dropped below ground (common), not sure what good propping it’s going to do unless they’re underpinning. I’d normally expect to see it propped if the windows were being altered. See that often.

 

[cherryblossom123]

I didn’t prop. They’re acro props. It was more about preventing any further movement.

Guess yours may be taking a different approach, and jacking things back up if it’s dropped visibly, but if it’s dropped below ground (common), not sure what good propping it’s going to do unless they’re underpinning. I’d normally expect to see it propped if the windows were being altered. See that often.

Understood. Maybe it is slightly different though, because the issue with mine is upstairs, not downstairs, the downstairs seems fine actually but the upstairs is drooping, so it could be different. Not sure what approach they are taking, will ask them though when they get back. I just wondered because the floor seems more level now, so I was unsure why the outside didn't look different, I kind of imagined them propping the whole thing up then reinforcing to prevent movement, as I said though it doesn't look complete, I'm guessing they finished for the day and will return to finish off later.

I was also wondering if it was reasonable/normal to expect the tiles to be straight even if the strucure was proped up, or if I'd need to also have the tiling redone (trying to figure out what I need to ask for to achieve what I want). My building knowledge is non-existent.

 

[23vc]

The upstairs is normally held up by concealed steel vertical posts within the downstairs bay window. Guess they may be packing/extending them to straighten things up. But the tiles seem to have moved a bit independently of that so may have some other issue. They’re hanging off horizontal battens nailed to the studwork, so might need redoing as a separate thing

 

[cdbe]

Generally you would replace the ground floor window frame with a new one incorporating structural bay poles. If they're not doing that you should be interested in how they propose to support the load (from the first floor and first floor bay) that is currently sitting on the ground floor window - if they're just trying to jack the first floor up with acrows and packing the top of the existing frame you're in big trouble.

 

[cherryblossom123]

Generally you would replace the ground floor window frame with a new one incorporating structural bay poles. If they're not doing that you should be interested in how they propose to support the load (from the first floor and first floor bay) that is currently sitting on the ground floor window - if they're just trying to jack the first floor up with acrows and packing the top of the existing frame you're in big trouble.

I doubt they are replacing the ground floor window, that was never discussed. Perhaps I didn't explain well but those acrows weren't there before. The windows were installed maybe 10 years ago? I'm not sure exactly but I have a fensa certificate from the previous owner. I simply mentioned the bay window drooping and the floor not being level and I'd like to put a chair there so it should be able to hold the weight.

Then they added the acrows yesterday and that is obviously not finished yet as the acrows are still there on the property. I know they mentioned something about straps so maybe that is how they plan to support the load, similar to the poster above. Having said that the bay window has been with the same support for the last 10 years or more with the previous owner so it might be thst it hasn't moved in many years anyway. I'm just wanting the floor to be level in the room, it to not move back/be supported and I want it to look flat from the outside. The other poster mentioned them not being straight may well be another issue, not sure if proping the bay window would do that directly . You mention about being in big trouble with no support but at worst it will be how it has been for the last 10 years and the surveyor said it was quite common and probably okay but to keep an eye on it. Hopefully the straps they mentioned can give the extra support!

The upstairs is normally held up by concealed steel vertical posts within the downstairs bay window. Guess they may be packing/extending them to straighten things up. But the tiles seem to have moved a bit independently of that so may have some other issue. They’re hanging off horizontal battens nailed to the studwork, so might need redoing as a separate thing

See my above comment about the about the support and how it has been previously. Regarding the tiles if they need to be done separately that's okay I just want to confirm that as I can then focus on the structure and have someone come and do the tiling afterwards.


Thanks both

 

[23vc]

The downstairs window may be fine, but when it was fitted things dropped, and are now being packed to regain a level floor upstairs, which would explain the acro’s.
I’d just speak to the builder to clarify

 

[cherryblossom123]

The downstairs window may be fine, but when it was fitted things dropped, and are now being packed to regain a level floor upstairs, which would explain the acro’s.
I’d just speak to the builder to clarify

I will speak with the builder. Do you think they will be doing a similar approach to yours then and putting the supports in perpendicular. The comment from the other user said that if they don't do that it could cause me a lot of trouble, I'm not sure what that means do you know?

Will it be possible then to have the outside still looking like it is drooping just because of the tiles, but actually the structure is fine and the tiles just need replacing.

Basically I just don't want to have the builders do something, then get it all plastered and decorated (plasterer is coming next week) then have it all tiled and either the tiles aren't straight because the bay window is not straight or it is straight and over time it starts to slump again or the tiles aren't able to be applied flat for some reason. It is expensive to have the work done and I can't afford to do it twice, the other user talking about replacing the window downstairs isn't something either my RICS surveyor or builder mentioned, so it is all a bit confusing! Cheers

 

[23vc]

3 different things going on here which I think you may be confusing with each other

1) acrow props which temporarily hold things up
2) restraint straps which I fitted and you can see in my pics, and were in your original surveyors report quote
3) vertical bay window support posts, which are hidden inside the frame of the downstairs window and support the bay above

We have no idea, based on the info given, whether there’s anything wrong with the downstairs window. Your questions are all perfectly reasonable so just ask the builder.