Question about paperwork

[PotatoSoup]

Hi there,
Thank you for reading this.
I had an electrician so some work on my house (same electrician as referenced in my last post).
He hasn't given my any paperwork other than an invoice.
Please can I check if I should have had any other paperwork?
He did the following:
Replaced the Consumer Unit.
Re-wired the kitchen almost completely (he left the cable going from the new consumer unit to the first socket and he left the cable going from the new consumer unit to the first light fixing. Everything else was moved around so he put in all new cables).
He rewired all the downstairs lighting circuit, the landing lights upstairs, the bathroom light upstairs and he added an outside light to this circuit. The last four lights in the lighting circuit he didn't do anything with.
He added a circuit for the mains-connected smoke alarms, connected the first two on the circuit and added and left the cables in situ for the next two in the circuit (still need to plaster).
Many thanks in advance for any information - I feel like I need to know exactly what to ask him for...

 

[Murdochcat]

He owes you, at the LEAST

An electrical installation certificate (EIC)

and if you are in England or wales a part p compliance document

 

[PotatoSoup]

(I am in England) Perfect!! Thanks so much

 

[ericmark]

Legal wise, either a completion or compliance certificate is required. Which depends on if he is a member of a scheme or not. But with the last lot of work I had done, it had to be downloaded with a like given with an email. It was not handed to me as a paper certificate.

The same applies to the installation certificate, I had to download it, it was not given as a paper document, and the installation certificate is required by BS7671, but BS7671 is not law, but can be used in a court of law. If you had DIY'ed the same work, then you would need to pay for someone to do an electrical installation condition report, but this would go to the council, all you would get is the completion certificate.

 

[PotatoSoup]

I'm a bit confused.

Legal wise, either a completion or compliance certificate is required. Which depends on if he is a member of a scheme or not. But with the last lot of work I had done, it had to be downloaded with a like given with an email. It was not handed to me as a paper certificate.

The same applies to the installation certificate, I had to download it, it was not given as a paper document, and the installation certificate is required by BS7671, but BS7671 is not law, but can be used in a court of law. If you had DIY'ed the same work, then you would need to pay for someone to do an electrical installation condition report, but this would go to the council, all you would get is the completion certificate.

Are you agreeing with Murdochcat that I should have had an electrical installation certificate (EIC) and a part p compliance document? Or are you saying I'd only get one of those depending on which scheme, if any, he's in?

Thank you for saying about a link - I'll check if I've had one.

 

[EFLImpudence]

You must get an EIC, and either -

a Compliance Certificate if the electrician is registered, or
a Completion Certificate if the work was overseen by the Local Authority.

It's not really anything to do with Part P of the Building Regulations.
People just called it that for some reason because it happened at the same time - 2005.



It's not supposed to make sense.

 

[ericmark]

BS7671 is not law, we tend to regard it as law, but not complying with it is not in its self illegal. Part P is law, and it requires either the electrician to be a scheme member, in which case he will need to raise an installation certificate to fill his contract with his scheme provider, and the scheme provider will also issue a compliance certificate, if he shows the scheme provider's logo anywhere, paperwork, van, internet advert etc. Then it is his reasonability to notify the work.

If however, he has not shown a logo, or scheme provider's name, then it is up to the homeowner to inform the local authority building control (LABC) before the work starts, often a builder will do this for the homeowner, but it is the responsibility of the homeowner, to inform and pay the fees. Rather unsatisfactory, as they don't issue a permit to work, so the electrician only has the homeowners word for it that the work has been notified. Only the person doing the work can issue an installation certificate, so if the LABC is not satisfied that the person has the skill required, they will commission an electrical installation condition report (EICR) which you pay for, but you don't get the report, (well it may be passed on, but they don't have to) and if the LABC are satisfied at the report, then a completion certificate is issued.

That's the theory, in practice if the electrician does not raise an installation certificate then the work is likely not to the required standard, as he knows even if using the LABC route you will need to submit that certificate, or pay around another £100+ to get the EICR, and the LABC fees in England are variable, but in Wales fixed at £100 plus vat for first £2000 worth of work, plus cost of EICR so that puts around £250 on top of the electricians bill, so using a non scheme electrician does not make sense.

I did it once in an emergency, the builder fitting a new wet room for my mother ran off, and as an amputee she needed the wet room urgent, so I did the work with my son, and jumped through the LABC hoops. To avoid paying for an EICR I had to show I was qualified, they viewed my degree, test equipment, and calibration certificates before an EIC completed by me was accepted.

 

[PotatoSoup]

Thank you so much - I really appreciate the time you've spent explaining this!!

I've checked - he's with NICEIC (thankfully).

I'll crack on with getting my hands on this paperwork.

Thanks so much, Everyone - very much appreciated.

 

[JohnW2]

I've checked - he's with NICEIC (thankfully).

If you can't get any sense (and remedial work) out of him, I imagine that NICIEC might be interested (ought to be interested - although, sadly, I would not be holding my breath) to hear about what sort of JB he has installed, and where

Kind Regards, John

 

[PotatoSoup]

Thank you - I'll bear that in mind!!

 

[JohnW2]

Thank you - I'll bear that in mind!!

You're welcome. As I hinted, a possible problem with NICEIC (and the others) is that they appear to be far more interested in collecting fees/subscriptions from members than they are about the quality of the work their members do - or so it's said

 

[ericmark]

I've checked - he's with NICEIC (thankfully).

Then not really your problem. I must admit the work I had done, the EIC was rather lacking in info. But it does what I want, so no problem.

 

[PotatoSoup]

You're welcome. As I hinted, a possible problem with NICEIC (and the others) is that they appear to be far more interested in collecting fees/subscriptions from members than they are about the quality of the work their members do - or so it's said

I really hope it doesn't come to me having to contact them. As I said in the other post, the electrician is a really nice chap and so I'd rather he and I sorted it between us but I really appreciate your support on this. If it gets to the point I have to contact NICEIC, I'll start another thread and let folks know how I got on with them!!

Then not really your problem. I must admit the work I had done, the EIC was rather lacking in info. But it does what I want, so no problem.

You're very informed on all this given my understanding is that you're not an electrician but a competent DIYer. Very impressive!

I strongly feel this should be taught in schools or something. I was completely ignorant of the fact that there are so many pitfalls homeowners can fall into because we have absolutely no idea what's required of us. How can you know what you don't know? I got an electrician in and I just assumed he'd guide me through any hoops I was meant to jump through and would provide me with the necessary documents. Meh.

I have found an email with a link from this electrician, which has now expired, so I think he has given me a certificate for the earlier work but I've definitely not had anything for the later work. Unfortunately, I didn't open the link because I thought it was just his invoice, which I'd already paid. I had no idea it would be an important disappearing document!! So, that mishap is definitely my fault. Hopefully, he'll provide me with a copy of the first certificate and generate another for the later stuff or I suppose I could have accidentally deleted a later email from him with another link (I absolutely do not think this is the case but you never know).

Anyway, I'll let you know how I get on.

 

[ericmark]

You're very informed on all this given my understanding is that you're not an electrician but a competent DIYer. Very impressive!

I am an industrial electrician, petrochemical, shipbuilding, power stations, pipelines, airports, even some shop fitting, but house bashing simply did not pay enough, so only did that when nothing else available. Retired now, but did have my C&G 2391, etc.

 

[PotatoSoup]

I did it once in an emergency, the builder fitting a new wet room for my mother ran off, and as an amputee she needed the wet room urgent, so I did the work with my son, and jumped through the LABC hoops.

Sorry, I meant to say, I'm so sorry your mum had that experience - how awful!!

How amazing that you were able to fix it for her quickly though