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Questions about Ch and Boiler upgrade

Discussion in 'Plumbing and Central Heating' started by benaround3, 30 Mar 2012.

  1. benaround3

    benaround3

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    I need to replace a Glow Worm Fuel Saver B that heats my small 3 bed terrace house, and add a bathroom radiator. I am also interested in converting from an open vent system to a sealed system, although I definitely do not want a combi.

    I would like to use an Intergas boiler,
    My second choice would be Vaillant
    Apart from that I wish to keep costs as low as possible and hope I will be able to retain at least some of the present control system and plumbing.
    I wish to keep the boiler in the bathroom upstairs not least as it is next to the internal soil stack and condensate drainage would be simple.

    My current system is fully pumped with a 3 port 3 position motorised valve, albeit now too stiff for the Duval motor to turn it. The positions are hw only, hw and ch, ch only
    The hot water cylinder is in the upstairs airing cupboard in middle of house, with controls, 3 port valve and pump. I cannot see any bypass anywhere.
    There are 5 radiators in the whole house. Each has a LSV and a wheel valve.
    No TRVs. The room stat is downstairs.
    The present control is a Potterton EP2000 via a Satchwell 437-2-802 wiring centre.
    Recently fitted Grundfos 15-50 130 Selectric pump.
    Downstairs rads are drop fed, no piping under the ground floor. I had thought about separate zoning for the bedroom circuit but all rads are currently mixed in the same circuit under the upstairs floorboards.
    The narrowest piping is ½ inch.
    I used an online heat loss calculator which came up with 4.18 KW for the house.

    Could you advise if this is an S plan or Y plan? I think it is a Y plan.

    I have contacted Intergas and they advise that their HRE 18 SB would be suitable, but if necessary I can stay with an open vent. The SB is downgradable to OV. I would like the Robokit with a view to putting the expansion in the airing cupboard.
    I have no pump run on system yet but from what I can make out I can retain the Potterton controls as the pump run-on is controlled from the Intergas Boiler, I want to simply upgrade from the EP 2000 to the 6000. Is this correct?

    I want to add a bathroom towel rail but not as a bypass circuit. I would want to turn it off in very hot weather. Can I have a wheel valve one end and TRV on the other?
    I have read about Magna clean, Combi mate, Hydroflow hs 38 and Sesi Salamander but not sure what I need. My local water is hard, (Basingstoke)
    I want the Magna clean but have to choose between Professional, Micro and Twin Tech models. I want the best and am prepared to have a Combimate or Sesi as well but don’t know if there is a need for this, in any case I want something to stop the hot water circuit scaling up as well. Can you advise on this? I will be having a power flush.

    Would you advise replumbing from one three port valve to two separate two port valves, and would this mean getting a new control unit or wiring centre?

    A local heating engineer advised that TRVs are not strictly required and the priority is to get the balancing correct. One thermostat and the rest TRV seems like a compromise, on an academic point only, would the best system be to have a separate MV for each rad and a thermostat in each room?

    Many thanks for reading all this.
     
  2. dcawkwell

    dcawkwell

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    Quite a lot of questions.

    1. You can have a magna clean if you want. I assume they do
    a reasonable job and may extend boiler life.
    2. You have a Y plan system.
    3. All the controls will need replacing.
    You will need a 2 channel programmer (hot water and central heating).
    Wall thermostat
    Tank thermostat
    (3) port valve
    4.You should either buy a system boiler (tank and expansion vessel in the boiler) or a combi and use it as a system boiler (hot water feature unused).
    5. TRV radiator valves I find are usually more trouble than they are worth.
    You are paying decide if you want them or not.
     
  3. doitall

    doitall

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    Trv's are a requirement on all rads except the rooms with the room stat.

    You'll almost certainly need two heating zones.
     
  4. Agile

    Agile

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    If you only have five rads you dont need two zones.

    An SB boiler contains a pump. The OV does not.

    Basingstoke is a long way from Aberdeen!

    Tony
     
  5. doitall

    doitall

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    Aberdeen was probably the address when the OP joined the forum.

    Zoning is floor area not the number of rads.
     
  6. benaround3

    benaround3

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    Ah, why did I put Aberdeen when I joined? Thanks for replying, will go over it in detail soon
     
  7. Agile

    Agile

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    Since its a SMALL three bed terrace house a requirement for zoning seems very unlikely!
     
  8. benaround3

    benaround3

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    My total floor area would be about 35 sq m per floor, ie 70. There is a reference to boiler requirements in floor areas above 50 sq m in sec 2.3b but I asssume my new boiler will satisfy that.
    Am trying to find my way around the regs on line now. The 2002 differentiate between Sec 1, design and construction and Sec 2, work on existing buildings.
    2.3 d says work required "may include" such as providing an interlocked, fully pumped system, which I already have, and I have 2 channels, separate hw and ch.
    Does this mean I don't need to install separate zones for upstairs and downstairs? I can't find anything in that section about TRVs
    I'm a bit confused by the fact that the 2010 document is supposed to incorporate amendments, so I would have though it contained everything, including everything in the 2002 document, but it doesn't, the guidance about controls, zoning etc is only in the 2002 document.
     
  9. Agile

    Agile

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    The requirement for zoning seems tohave been dropped from the BR.

    But it is still part of the Best Practice.

    Regardless, you dont need zoning! It was only needed over 150m2. Something I must remember to fit here!

    But you can fit whatever controls you like'

    Tony
     
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  10. oph

    oph

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    Do one thing if only this. Ditch the magna clean. They are crap. They do a great job but given time they leak.
    Get a spirotech mb3 Instead OR a Fernox tf1if you'd prefer
     
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  11. misterdubya

    misterdubya

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    Just got in from replacing one of these - housing had split and a ceiling on the floor. :eek:
     
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  12. xr4x4

    xr4x4

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    Hello from basingstoke ;)

    Two heating zones on a 3 bed terrace? I don't think so.

    4 kw doesn't sound a lot?
     
  13. benaround3

    benaround3

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    misterdubya
    What did you replace? A magna clean or a fernox?
     
  14. doitall

    doitall

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    i have 3 Magnacleans in different properties, one is 5 years ish old, and not had a single problem, with them or the dozens we have installed over the years.
     
  15. Dan Robinson

    Dan Robinson

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    My last house was a three bed terrace - i had 3 zones in it.... simples.
     
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