Razor Wire and Wall Spikes

[Raz0rwireuk]

Dear all
Came across some discussions in this forum relating to the use of razor wire and wall spikes, being in the business I'd like to correct some misapprehensions about the use of these materials.

Firstly Razor Wire and Wall Spikes are certainly NOT illegal, we sell both in large quantities to the general public as well as trade, so have come to know a thing or two about it. Secondly the police, council or anyone else for that matter cannot force you to remove it without a court order if its on your land and doesn't hang over or intrude anyone else's land. That being said if your back fence bordered a school play ground for instance it would be easy to establish that there is a risk to the public even if it its not actually impinging public land. Still they would need a court order to get you to remove it.

The big issue is "liability" or in other words the chances of successfully being prosecuted for causing injury as a result of it being on your property. Thats a different matter, firstly private property without employees; providing you are able to show that its erected in such a position that it is visible in all light conditions, erect warning signs every few meters your chances of being successfully sued by an unwanted intruder are very slim. If the property is private but rented out, you will need permission of the person renting it for it to be there and the same applies regarding signage etc, I'd advise they sign a disclaimer accepting liability for it and any potential injuries to their guests or family.

If the property is private but you have employees on site, then you have to consider the H&S workplace issues, again by demonstrating that all employees are aware of it, have no need or reason accidentally or deliberate to come into contact with it, and again signage is displayed your liability is greatly mitigated.

In all cases although its not regulated, placing razorwire and wall spikes at a safe (above normal working height) is highly recommended. In all cases you must not hide it, i.e in a hedgerow or camouflage it because then your liability escalates considerably and even a burglar would be able to sue you. The other thing you have to consider are clauses in your tenancy agreements, or planning permissions, if by adding razor wire or wall spikes you infringe these.

 

[Norcon]

Thanks for that info.
We haven't resorted to razor wire yet but have considered it. Nothing I'd like better than to see an intruder hung up on it and cut to pieces.

Signs every few meters seems a lot.

 

[^woody^]

providing you are able to show that its erected in such a position that it is visible in all light conditions, erect warning signs every few meters your chances of being successfully sued by an unwanted intruder are very slim.

..... I'd advise they sign a disclaimer accepting liability for it and any potential injuries to their guests or family.

.... again by demonstrating that all employees are aware of it, have no need or reason accidentally or deliberate to come into contact with it, and again signage is displayed your liability is greatly mitigated.

I'm not sure how much of your post is spam, but for as long as it is here ....

All of what you are saying is not clear cut (pardon the pun).

The OLA 54 and more probably the 85 Act hinge on precedent and reasonableness relative to each case. The DPA '72 may also have a bearing for the owner.

Its not just about putting up a few signs or putting the wire out of reach. That helps very little in mitigation

And disclaimers wont work in the slightest

You can put the wire as high as you like and fix as many signs as you like, but if it is not reasonable for the wire to be there for the circumstances of the injury, they you have had it

 

[Norcon]

but if it is not reasonable for the wire to be there for the circumstances of the injury, they you have had it

In other words what you are saying, is that it is reasonable for an intruder to gain access without injury.
That makes me mad.

 

[indus]

Personally I'd rather face a burglar trying to sue me for injury than a burglar in my home.

However the big issue I would have is the hindrance to emergency services trying to gain access.

 

[Norcon]

However the big issue I would have is the hindrance to emergency services trying to gain access

How about opening the gate?

 

[^woody^]

In other words what you are saying, is that it is reasonable for an intruder to gain access without injury.
That makes me mad.

Yes, even trespassers and burglars have rights!

 

[joinerjohn]

Hmmm , We can already see from this post http://www.diynot.com/forums/general-discussion/dog-bites-man.346909/

that the law considers criminals to have rights. I can't see that putting razor wire , or spikes on walls with signs up pointing out the dangers, would make any difference to whether you were sued for any injury, by some scumbag crim trying to gain access to your property.

 

[Norcon]

In other words what you are saying, is that it is reasonable for an intruder to gain access without injury.
That makes me mad.

Yes, even trespassers and burglars have rights!

Only if they live.
A burgular isn't going to tell too many he's going up to Joe Smiths house tonight to burgle it.
So Joe clubs him to death and buries him at the foot of the garden.

btw in Ireland you can shoot an intruder/burgular and I'm pretty sure camaron changed the law in the uk to a similar effect.

 

[^woody^]

sued for any injury, by some scumbag crim

Who is the scumbag .... the burglar or the Solicitor that wins him a few £000 (and himself even more) for a tenuous claim?

 

[Norcon]

sued for any injury, by some scumbag crim

Who is the scumbag .... the burglar or the Solicitor that wins him a few £000 (and himself even more) for a tenuous claim?

Their both scumbags and thieves except one doesn't have to wear a mask.

 

[joinerjohn]

Who's the scumbag?

Well ,, at the end of the day, the crim is still the scumbag. The real problem however, is a legal system that affords these "rights" to scumbags and criminals. The lawyers/solicitors , are however, "only making ends meet" by representing the unrepresentable. (at least that's what they'd say.)

 

[Raz0rwireuk]

Just a quick response to Woody's earlier note, this is certainly not a "spam" posting, I just happened to come across a comment in the forum where someone was claiming the use of Razorwire and Wall Spikes was illegal, which obviously it isn't, HM Gov is the biggest user in the UK. On the subject of being prosecuted for causing injury to intruders through the use of either of these, I don't know of any case in the last 10 years that has gone to litigation. The main concern is not intruders as recent events show the law is leaning further and further on the side of the occupant. The biggest problem we face is ensuring people erect it so innocent parties are not accidentally hurt and the other is making sure they are putting it up in a way that doesn't infringe neighbouring properties. Emergency services of course is a consideration but it most cases they will use the front gate rather than 6ft high back fence. Regarding signs, they are HS standard A5 size heavy duty plastic, their not expensive, a couple of quid each at the most, but by placing them at frequent intervals it far easier to demonstrate that adequate warning was provided.