Record immigration figures released. Why we should get out !

[gasbanni]

We live on a densely populated island with a finite infrastructure, I'm pretty certain that house prices due to supply and demand have a direct correlation with the amount of immigration that's taken place.
Just for example if the million or so poles that are here went home there be more houses available house prices would fall and our kids wouldn't be struggling as they are now. Simplistic but true.

http://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulat...grationstatisticsquarterlyreport/february2016

As long as we're in the EU anyone in Europe has the right to come here and we can't stop them, 1,000,000 more poles perhaps ?

Who can blame them it's a great country.

The single biggest reason we should get out is to stop the level of Imigration that's occuring.

 

[Doggit]

Your simplistic view gasbanni, is very perceptive, but as I've said on other posts, there'e a lot more to it than that, and some of it's complicated.

Less immigrants will free up housing stock, which will bring down rents.

English people are too lazy to pick vegetables, so we need immigrants for that as well.

And we haven't trained enough doctors and nurses, so we need immigrants for these jobs as well.

We don't have enough houses, so we need polish builders, and more houses built would bring down prices.

Our banks aren't regulated properly, so we get a lot of dodgy money money buying up property in London, which then forces up prices further out as people look for more affordable houses. But as most politicians want cushy jobs in the private sector when they leave office, they certainly aren't going to regulate the banks, nor stop foreign ownership of UK property, because they wan't money to come into the country.

If we had less immigrants, then business would have to increase the minimum wage themselves in order to attract more workers, but instead, we have to force them to do so. And this just makes us a more attractive place for immigrants to come and work.

Maggie sold off the council houses (which actually was an okay thing to do) but for some odd reason, she didn't let the councils build new houses with the money they received; and subsequent governments and councils still didn't increase council housing either.

Germany can build things that get exported, so brings in revenue, and they don't live off credit, so why can't we learn the same things. Unfortunately, we are run by politicians that allow the economy to grow on ever increasing debt lent by bankers that have ever increasing bonuses'and it's a recipe for disaster.

You can't blame it all on immigrants, but as the EU won't allow us to control it, we need to get out.

 

[Himaginn]

There's a bit you forgot, Doggit, UK house prices are underpinned by the notion in UK of owning our own home. This is not a fundamental concept in EU.
And it affects house prices.
Which, in turn, affects the amount of capital or debt that we can raise.

 

[gasbanni]

Your simplistic view gasbanni, is very perceptive, but as I've said on other posts, there'e a lot more to it than that, and some of it's complicated.

Less immigrants will free up housing stock, which will bring down rents.

English people are too lazy to pick vegetables, so we need immigrants for that as well.

And we haven't trained enough doctors and nurses, so we need immigrants for these jobs as well.

We don't have enough houses, so we need polish builders, and more houses built would bring down prices.

Our banks aren't regulated properly, so we get a lot of dodgy money money buying up property in London, which then forces up prices further out as people look for more affordable houses. But as most politicians want cushy jobs in the private sector when they leave office, they certainly aren't going to regulate the banks, nor stop foreign ownership of UK property, because they wan't money to come into the country.

If we had less immigrants, then business would have to increase the minimum wage themselves in order to attract more workers, but instead, we have to force them to do so. And this just makes us a more attractive place for immigrants to come and work.

Maggie sold off the council houses (which actually was an okay thing to do) but for some odd reason, she didn't let the councils build new houses with the money they received; and subsequent governments and councils still didn't increase council housing either.

Germany can build things that get exported, so brings in revenue, and they don't live off credit, so why can't we learn the same things. Unfortunately, we are run by politicians that allow the economy to grow on ever increasing debt lent by bankers that have ever increasing bonuses'and it's a recipe for disaster.

You can't blame it all on immigrants, but as the EU won't allow us to control it, we need to get out.

A few simplistic fallacies in there, that are quoted like a mantra. But you got there in the end.

 

[Doggit]

Not completely, they are underpinned by supply and demand. You either have home ownership, or you have landlords. If there's not enough housing stock, then prices go up whoever is trying to buy. It's just that people with money (some landlords included) will get a better return on investment from buying and letting a property than they would from putting it in a savings account. If saving accounts paid more money, then less people would invest in property.

And the banks pay such crap interest, because the Labour government spent too much in the boom period, and didn't have sufficient reserves to handle the American crash when it came, so the Conservatives started quantative easing, gave the money to the banks to try and stimulate the economy, and that meant the banks didn't have to pay decent interest to their savers.

It was the conservatives that then tried to promote home ownership with various help to buys schemes that then made matters worse.

If the problem was down to the UK wanting to own houses, whilst people in the EU didn't, then rents would be low and stable, but they're not, so it's got very little to do with the EU happy to rent, and the UK wanting to buy.

 

[Doggit]

Sorry gasbanni, please point out the fallacies, I'm always happy to be corrected. But as I agree with you, it's a shame that you had to be patronising towards me.

 

[woodbine]

There's talk of Turkey and Albania joining the EU. That's 70 MILLION muslims whose incomes are a lot lower than in The UK. All will have the right to come here.

We need to get out, and quick!

 

[Himaginn]

There's talk of Turkey and Albania joining the EU. That's 70 MILLION muslims whose incomes are a lot lower than in The UK. All will have the right to come here.

We need to get out, and quick!

That's a gross misrepresentation linking Albania alongside Turkey. It's also a prejudicial rant exploiting the politics of paranoia, and spreading urban mythology as usual.

Albania has a population of under 3 million. It is a full member of NATO. It is about 50% Muslim (not that matters much)
Albania resurgence was born out of the breakup of Yugoslavia, which is now surrounded by EU countries, and the decline of communism. Albania has been a candidate for full membership of EU since 2014.
It is without doubt a European country. IMO it makes geographical, economic and political sense for Albania to be a member of EU.

Turkey has been a candidate for full membership since 1999. (and has been wanting to join since 1959)
Surprisingly, Germany is the main opponent of Turkey joining EU, (not surprisingly, so is Cyprus). Whereas UK and USA have been supporters all along. France is now supporting the joining of Turkey to EU, but with serious considerations.
There is understandable discussion about whether Turkey is a European country, and the concern over human rights.
A former president of EU, back in 2006, expected Turkey's process for complying not to be completed until at least 2021, and Turkey was hoping to be a full member by 2023. If the 2023 date had not been achieved Turkey was threatening to cease the process of complying with the requirements.
Only 15 out of 35 'chapters' (aspects of discussions) about accession of Turkey are open for discussion currently. The rest are frozen.
Only 1 out of the 35 chapters has been completed so far.

So Turkey's accession to full membership is very much in doubt. And the 2023 deadline is a pipe dream.

But the most important fact of them all, any new country joining the EU needs full unanimous support of all the existing members, because it requires a Treaty Change.
Cyprus, particularly is likely to continue to oppose Turkey's acceptance into EU.

 

[Doug99]

It seems the Germans have mislaid a few of their migrants.........they can't account for over 100,000+ since they crossed into Germany.

UK has a net migration figure of 300,000+ for the last 12 months, but we've issued 600,000 National Insurance numbers during the same period.

Well done EU.......keep up the good work.

 

[EFLImpudence]

UK has a net migration figure of 300,000+ for the last 12 months, but we've issued 600,000 National Insurance numbers during the same period.

That's because 300,000 of us left.

 

[Himaginn]

It seems the Germans have mislaid a few of their migrants.........they can't account for over 100,000+ since they crossed into Germany.
UK has a net migration figure of 300,000+ for the last 12 months, but we've issued 600,000 National Insurance numbers during the same period.
Well done EU.......keep up the good work.

School leavers, people entering the employment market for first time, lost insurance numbers, duplication, etc, etc?

It's so funny how people blame EU for Germany's mistake.

It's the EU's fault that UK issued more NI numbers than there were migrants.

Blimey, Frankie Dettori was suspended from riding for six months after being found guilty of taking a prohibited substance, believed to be cocaine.
Well done EU. We need to get out.

The discussion is teetering into ridiculousness again.

 

[EFLImpudence]

UK issued more NI numbers than there were migrants.

No, the figures given are, for some reason, always NET immigration - 300,000.

Immigrants 600,000; emigrants 300,000. NI numbers issued 600,000.

 

[jockscott]

It was actually 630,000 NI numbers issued to EU nationals coming to the UK in 2015 (and 197,000 allocated to non EU nationals) A total of 828,000 in 2015.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...rations-adult-overseas-nationals-feb-2016.pdf

Nothing to do with school leavers, duplication, etc, etc.

 

[gasbanni]

It was actually 630,000 NI numbers issued to EU nationals coming to the UK in 2015 (and 197,000 allocated to non EU nationals) A total of 828,000 in 2015.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...rations-adult-overseas-nationals-feb-2016.pdf

Nothing to do with school leavers, duplication, etc, etc.

What's that as a percentage of the population a sixtieth something like that ......in one year .....that level of immigration year on year is unsustainable.
No wonder there's a housing shortage, the health service is struggling and the roads are a nightmare !

Single polish mum two kids and her mother. She works but probably gets tax credits and housing benefit ( rents the house from a relative) left Poland because of money problems. So if you do the maths it doesn't take genius to work out she gets more out of the system than she puts in.
Health care x4 schooling x 2
Purely from an economic point of view how can this make sense. Obviously someone born here is a citizen of this country and could be in the same boat but they belong here ........what if millions more in the EU decide to make their life here ....what then ?

 

[Himaginn]

What's that as a percentage of the population a sixtieth something like that ......i

You're mixing your percentages with fractions. There's no such thing as a sixtieth%