replacing a 77" x 33" x 1.75" door

[bludger]

This used to be an outside door before a porch was added to the house. It has a very old-fashioned look, has a letterbox and four horizontal glazing bars, single glazed of course.

I would like to to replace it with a better looking, double glazed, internal door. The double glazing companies don't want to know because of the wooden frame - which can't be removed by the way.

It can get a carpenter to make the door itself, if I tell him what I want. He has the machinery needed. So what do I ask him to do? Questions that come to my mind are:

Would the frame of a fully glazed door (four outside lengths of wood only) be strong enough to hold the weight of the glass without sagging?

What depth rebate on the frame would be needed to butt the glass up to?

What sort of rubber sealing gasket would be suitable to hold the glass in? Or would I have to have wood stripping?

I'd really appreciate advice on this, please.

 

[gregers]

if the chippie/joiner is good enough to make/build it,then he should be good enough to know how to do it the correct way to make what you require,leave him to give you the ins and outs of what he is going to do,
perhaps you can give him a rough sketch of what you would like then ask him if he can build it.

 

[bludger]

Sorry about the late response. New Year and all that.

The chippie is a retired friend of mine. He was a house carpenter all his life and now makes excellent furniture to amuse himself. Double glazed doors aren't his area of expertise.

Making the frame is no problem, obviously. What we need to know, I think, is the best way of supporting and retaining the heavy glass within the frame. We could just rebate the frame, drop the glass in, and then pin quadrant around it. I'm concerned about expansion and contraction after that. Would we need rubber gaskets to absorb this? And where could we get them?

 

[Burnerman]

So long as your chippie makes nice solid stiles and rails for the new door, with wedged mortice and double tenons - and I'm certain he knows what he is doing - there wont be any problem with the weight of the glass. Consult with your glazier regarding the thickness of the new glass unit and the chippie will make the rebates to suit.
As this is an internal door, weatherproofing isn't too vital - the glass unit will be supported on plastic wedges and a back putty put in to stop the rattling. The outer glass face can be retained with glass beads.
It could be a good idea to use 3 quality hinges to hold the new door in the frame.
Hope your project goes well, and happy new year!
John

 

[crank39]

Correct me if im wrong but if your going to remove the frame so your joiner can make a new door and frame why dont you just remove the frame and then get some DG comapnies back to measure up for a PVC door or am i missing something?

Generally external doors are only 44mm think so that restricts the thickness of the DG unit that you can have, in the past you would only fit a 14mm 4/6/4 unit in but im not sure how the part 'L' regulations affect this now because the minimum is a 24mm or 16mm air gap.

All depends how thick your new door will be

 

[bludger]

crank39,

We can't remove the frame. It was an outside door with 3 top lights and wide side lights with sills over brick half walls. The door frame is part of the woodwork on the sides and top.

I've had double glazing companies in and they don't do plastic doors without the plastic frames to put them in. Quite why I didn't really understand. I did find a firm that does wooden double glazed doors but, my word they are expensive and, if we get it right, getting my mate to make the door will be much cheaper. I know he does excellent work

I don't think that regulations will come into changing a single glazed internal door to a double glazed one, no matter how small the air gap will have to be. It will be an improvement after all.

Burnerman,

I'll gently introduce the subject of wedged mortices and double tenons to my friend. No doubt he'll gently point out that he knows something about this already.

Your info on plastic wedges, back putty and glass beads is really helpful and what I'm after. Don't quite understand about the glass beads - are these a sort of quadrant strip?

 

[Burnerman]

Glass beads are usually sloped to cast water away from the glass itself, but on an internal door, your quadrant moulds will be just fine - its whatever Wickes etc have got in their timber section rack.
I'm certain your chippy will have forgotten more than I'll ever know....tell them their job at your peril
good luck with it!
John

 

[crank39]

crank39,

We can't remove the frame. It was an outside door with 3 top lights and wide side lights with sills over brick half walls. The door frame is part of the woodwork on the sides and top.

Ah right its that type of frame ok

You'll need your joiner to come and measure the width, height and thickness of the old door then go through your design with you, im sure he'll know how to construct it so that it incorparates a DG unit, oh and heres a double wedged mortice and tenon joint for your info

http://www.doordeals.co.uk/emerchantpro/pc/catalog/M&T Joints.jpg

 

[bludger]

crank 39,

That's a nice shot of the needed joint. I'll show it to my mate.

Happy New Year to both of you.