Running water in pipes - cannot find leak

[John D v2.0]

Look in all your manholes outside for water flow with everything off, then at least you'll know whether it's going down the drain or leaking elsewhere/under floor. Even if it is going under the floor, it could be draining into a rainwater gulley before it shows elsewhere. Either way you'll see whether there's flow.

 

[crappy]

I've pulled the plinth to see and it was bone dry under there. It might be behind the cupboards.

Will find a quiet time when neighbours are not home to pull the manhole as well. It's shared in the drive.

 

[crappy]

Fresh out of luck.
I had two pipes to follow. Found one is blind and serves no purpose. it has no leaks.

I followed the second one, lost it in the ceiling. I think I know where it comes out of the ceiling but cannot be sure. Nonetheless, there are no water marks in the ceiling.
Where I think it re-materialises behind the kitchen cupboards shows no sign of a leak. It must split in the ceiling somewhere as the boiler is opposite side of the taps. Again, no evidence anywhere.

Time to give up I think and call someone who (claims to) know what their doing.

Short of taking a hammer to everything and following it, is there anything different a competent plumber would do?


thanks
C

 

[terryplumb]

so,did you establish if water is running into drains ,when all appliances / taps/ boiler etc are not being used ? after this amount of time a leak from pipework inside house would certainly have shown itself. I would now be focused on the boiler ,is it a condensing combi ? if it is establish where the condensate pipework joins waste pipe work .there should be nothing coming out when the boiler is off. if there is that's your answer.

 

[crappy]

did you establish if water is running into drains ,when all appliances / taps/ boiler etc are not being used ?

Yes, lifted the cover, it's wet but not running that I could see.

I would now be focused on the boiler ,is it a condensing combi ?

it's a Worcester 28i combi. I've checked it, closed the inlets and still it continues.

if it is establish where the condensate pipework joins waste pipe work

I've checked the overflow as well as the condensate pipe. The overflow is bone dry and the condensate had a little water dripping from it but someone was having a shower just before. Even so, the drip would not amount for the volume the meter is showing.


I've called in a local plumber who has done work before - he thinks that it could be in the floors but really, I cannot find any pipework which goes into the floor. Ceiling yes, floor - no.

C

 

[terryplumb]

so where is your stopcock and water meter ?

 

[HERTS P&D]

so where is your stopcock and water meter ?

Terry, that was the first reply I gave but 3 other 'Professionals' disagreed with me.

Andy

 

[crappy]

so where is your stopcock and water meter ?

Water meter is at the end of the drive, stopcock is in the house.

I close the stopcock in the house and the hissing(*) stops, as does the water meter. So fault cannot be between house and meter.
The hissing is the water running past the stopcock in the house.


There may be another stopcock in the street at the meter - I have not checked really as the above says it's post the house stopcock. Am I wrong?

 

[HERTS P&D]

No, you are correct.

If you close the internal stopcock and the noise stops then the problem is internal.

Andy

 

[crappy]

and the noise stops then the problem is internal.

...said the doctor to me.

 

[terryplumb]

I should have been clearer , where in the house is stopcock ? and what route does the pipe coming from it take ? how much of it can you actually see ?. with regard to the combi boiler ,( i know you said previously you have checked it ). do you know how to isolate the cold mains feed ? not the filling loop. if you do , isolate it and see if you still hear the hissing. obviously boiler must not be in use by anyone when doing this.

 

[crappy]

The pipe comes from the drive, under the house, up, into the study (used to be kitchen) where it has the internal stopcock.
So, leak is after this point.
After stopcock it runs along the wall (I can see it as it's been boxed in) about a foot, through the wall, into the bathroom. Again, I can see it all the way as it's boxed in with inspection hatched.
After the bathroom it heads into the ceiling where it splits, half for the boiler and half for the kitchen sink etc.
Boiler: I can mostly follow it to the boiler. Cannot see any leaks nor evidence of leaks (we're still in the ceiling)
Sink: I cannot really trace this but it's still in the ceiling. I know more or less where. It then comes down the inside of the kitchen wall (boxed in, cannot see but no evidence), under the counter (where I can now see it clearly) and up to the sink / dishwasher. Zero leaks or evidence there.
There is also a stopcock on both hot and cold before it Ts off for the outside tap, the dishwasher and the sink. I close that.


So... While I cannot see the pipework in it's entirety it is all in the ceiling or places I can see it. Not once does it go under the floor....

I have isolated the boiler. The cold feed into the boiler (has a T for the fill loop) has a screw-in-the-pipe-stopcock (not sure what you call them?). I close that and that is all I can do. Still, it persists.


What I am going to try tomorrow -
Freeze the pipe where it rises into the ceiling. If it stops there then I have removed 50% of the potential problems.
Freeze the pipe where it exists the ceiling and goes into the box again. That removes 50% of the remaining pipework.


The house is a semi with only one downstairs bathroom. The kitchen is behind the bathroom. There really is not that much to it....

 

[HERTS P&D]

What's your postcode?

Andy

 

[crappy]

I was going to give you a shout.....

AL9 7 You far?


I've got a guy who says he can come round on Monday / Tuesday.

If you wanted to PC me your details we can chat...

 

[endecotp]

Freeze the pipe where it rises into the ceiling

I may be wrong, but I don't think you can freeze a pipe while a significant amount of water is flowing through it.