Should I fit an RCBO or a MCB?

[EFLImpudence]

You are allowed to do it but you must comply with the law.

We did not make the law so surely you cannot object to it being brought to your attention.

If, by complying with the law, it turns out you are not allowed to do it then obviously the government do not consider it to be a DIY job and think a skilled person should be employed.
DIY is a misleading term which does not mean that anyone can do anything.
What about DIY brain surgery?

As for hundreds being out of their depth - yes they are - some do not even realise what a switch does but can be told how and, hopefully, persuaded to learn and understand.
Shops sell all sorts of things that most people don't know how to install or even operate.

Do you do your own gas work?
If not, is it because you don't have all the necessary tools and equipment (which I dare say you don't have for electrical work but can get away with a screwdriver and scissors) or is because you think it dangerous?
After all it is easy, isn't it? It's just plumbing without the water.

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

Doc - YOU were the one who claimed "have followed current regs up until now", nobody else.

Sounds like the OP has not done enough research and is under-prepared, ill-informed and undereducated to proceed any further with this task! If (big if) an electrician had been pre-arranged to make the final connections and tests, they would have informed the OP of what was required.

The circuit needs to be notified and approved prior to starting the work, cables and protective device need to be sized and selected correctly, cables routed within permitted zones, equipment selected suitable for the environment and IP ratings need to be compliant to BS7671.

Then before energising the circuit a series of tests must take place to confirm it is safe to energise, then on energising, further test are required to confirm the circuit is safe to be commissioned and go in to service, these results must then be documented in an electrical installation certificate.

Regrettably sounds like some/most of this has not and possibly will not be adhered to.

I asked him the question "Is the OP telling us things which are not true?"

The electric shower cable isn't connected up either end ie not shower or CU but has been fed along a route that enables the electric shower to be connected by sparky.

Who chose the size of the cable (design)?

Who chose the route of the cable (design and construction)?

Who is going to certify that the design and construction which they carried out complied with the regulations? The electrician? Does he know that? Is he happy to falsify documents?

It doesn't matter how keen a DIYer you are, neither attribute exempts you from being able to comply with the regulations.

Cheers. Makes one wonder what's the point in DIY stores since we're not allowed to do anything anymore.

You have started a task and proceeded with it until you can no longer complete with out asking for informed advice, the upshot of your question has flagged up the fact that you unwittingly have broken the legal requirement to notify your work prior to starting and gaining approval to commence. You claim you have followed the regs, but you have not followed the regulation of notification, so regardless of you additional claims of background knowledge in physics and basic electrics, it cast a shadow of doubt over that and does not automatically mean you understand the requirements laid down by BS7671. I am not saying it is a task you cannot undertake, but you must gain a better understanding of what this type of work entails. Just because there are DIY stores, does not make everything associated to what they sell, a DIY job! As you have proved yourself, as you are unable to proceed with the task in hand and should not have started the work without advice. If you don't not have the skill and knowledge to complete a task, it no longer comes under the umbrella of DIY! I am sorry if I come across a little harsh to you but, I am not that concerned that you have broken the law (not that I approve of it though). More concerned that things are done correctly for the safeguarding of lives, I hope you appreciate this?

 

[DocScrewdriver]

PrenticeBoyofDerry - No worries - we're all grown ups here. Since cable wasn't wired in, it's now removed so apart from shower mounted and plumbed in it's all back to original. Some local electrician will get my business now.

 

[DocScrewdriver]

Doc - YOU were the one who claimed "have followed current regs up until now", nobody else.

Sorry, I didn't explain clearly - by regs I meant to say the type of materials needed i.e cable, pull switch, position, zones etc. I realise now that all this is notifiable. So it's all stopped. At least the bathroom tiling and new suite look good.

 

[DocScrewdriver]

[/QUOTE]You have started a task and proceeded with it until you can no longer complete with out asking for informed advice, the upshot of your question has flagged up the fact that you unwittingly have broken the legal requirement to notify your work prior to starting and gaining approval to commence. You claim you have followed the regs, but you have not followed the regulation of notification, so regardless of you additional claims of background knowledge in physics and basic electrics, it cast a shadow of doubt over that and does not automatically mean you understand the requirements laid down by BS7671. I am not saying it is a task you cannot undertake, but you must gain a better understanding of what this type of work entails. Just because there are DIY stores, does not make everything associated to what they sell, a DIY job! As you have proved yourself, as you are unable to proceed with the task in hand and should not have started the work without advice. If you don't not have the skill and knowledge to complete a task, it no longer comes under the umbrella of DIY! I am sorry if I come across a little harsh to you but, I am not that concerned that you have broken the law (not that I approve of it though). More concerned that things are done correctly for the safeguarding of lives, I hope you appreciate this?[/QUOTE]

And I appreciate your concern. Safety is also my concern. It's a moot point now anyway since electrician is now booked.

 

[ericmark]

What is a new circuit? Until the Part P documents have definitions then it's easy enough to argue it's not new so does not need notifying.

Eric. this clarification document should answer your question.
http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/permission/commonprojects/electrics/

In the text it clearly states

Notifiable jobs include:

• the installation of a new consumer unit or fuse box
• the installation of a complete new circuit – for example a ring or lighting circuit, or a new circuit for a cooker, shower or immersion heater
• alterations to existing circuits – such as adding an extra power point or lighting point – but only in ‘special locations’. In England, special locations are the spaces around baths and showers. In Wales, special locations include also kitchens and outdoors.

So, additions to existing circuits, or additional sockets after the installation of an FCU are not notifiable. Other requirements, such as conforming to BS7671, apply!

Thank you very much. I will admit that does seem crazy but if it says "complete new circuit" then fair enough. A complete circuit must be transformer to appliance so kind of contradicts its self when it says "for example a ring or lighting circuit, or a new circuit for a cooker, shower or immersion heater" as they will only be new circuits if nothing else connected to transformer.

Yes I know what they mean, but it seems the writers do not have a command of English. It would be so easy to say "from the distribution unit" and this would remove any argument, it would also allow the use of FCU, but not a sub CU in garage or shed, adding "from the distribution unit" would make it so easy. However the fact they have not included "from the distribution unit" makes me think they want you to interpret it in a way so you don't need to notify.

 

[ericmark]

I rather think that they have added those bits to clear up confusion. I only added this as is the government's view on what they meant by the text in the Approved Document (not the "law" mind you).

Strictly speaking, the text they are attempting to clarify (their view of) 'the intended meaning of' (i.e. the text specifying what is notifiable) is part of the Building Regs (not the AD), and therefore is "law". In any event, the clarification they are offering corresponds to the common sense interpretation of the law that most of us have always assumed.

Kind Regards, John

Once the law is made to clarify needs a court case not some one saying I intended to say xyz. So if some one is taken to court for changing his fuse box for a distribution unit without notifying first then case law is made and it can be shown a distribution unit is considered as being the same as a consumer unit. But there has to be a court case.

special locations are the spaces around baths and showers. In Wales, special locations include also kitchens and outdoors

Is clearly wrong. A special location in Wales is not the spaces around baths and showers but the whole room and in Wales it do not state what does need notifying but what does not need notifying so very simple if not on list it needs notifying.

As to if the law is valid in Wales is another question. As it seems it breaks the law as not available in Welsh.

 

[JohnW2]

Once the law is made to clarify needs a court case not some one saying I intended to say xyz. So if some one is taken to court for changing his fuse box for a distribution unit without notifying first then case law is made and it can be shown a distribution unit is considered as being the same as a consumer unit. But there has to be a court case.

That is strictly true. However, I'm sure that, in coming to a conclusion, a Court would give a lot of weight to what a government-written document said about the interpretation (or intended interpretation) of the law.

Kind Regards, John

 

[EFLImpudence]

A special location in Wales is not the spaces around baths and showers but the whole room

Not so. Schedule 4 has the same description.