Sky from a central point.

[Brightonguy]

Hi, I aim to future-proof the renovation. The aim is to have a conduit enter a cupboard from the ground outside. The cable company, Sky, or whoever, runs their cable into the cupboard. From here, the central point, I want cable TV points to each room: l/room, kitchen, all bedrooms. I believe CAT5 or CAT 6 will do. Would the likes of sky fit a box as their cable enters the house? How should such a setup work and how should it be wired up? And how are the TVs controlled from each room?

ta.

 

[RickMoore]

Sky won't get involved in anything of the sort. Besides some of their fitters barely know how to correctly install a mini dish, so you really wouldn't want them messing with anything more complicated. If you want it done right use a specialist installer that knows what they are doing. You can try http://www.fixmyaerial.com/ for an installer in your area.

If you want to be able to watch different channels in each room, then get a IRS fitted, this will take care of all your required satellite and terrestrial TV points, and have sky/freesat boxes locally to the TV's as required.

If your quite happy with the complications of sharing recievers, then do you want SD or HD. SD is relatively cheap and uses coax, though be aware SKY have pulled the RF2 output on their latest generation boxes so that would need taking into consideration. If you want HD then you will want to go HDMI over cat5e/6. The offerings from Wyrestorm and CYP are worth looking at. The Triax stuff is ok too.

 

[Brightonguy]

Thanks Rickmore. Firstly what is an IRS & RF2?

I want to know the best cable to run to each room from the central point and what sort of wall termination sockets do I get fitted. The cable company will not be running then cables. An electrician will be running the cables in preparation in a renovation. Going by the gist of what you write it is possible to have independent TV in all rooms as long as there is a box in each room.

So I just need to know:
a) what sort of cables to run around the house buried in the walls?
b) what type of termination sockets on the walls of each room?

Once I know a) and b) the cable can be run and a TV company connect their box at the central point, and/or have a TV box in each room.

I do not want to get into an expensive commercial system, but when I am in hotels I see the TV without boxes and they can get all the channels via the remote control and they just plug into the walls.

I want to know how it works and lay in the first fix for it. I do not want one of those cowboy jobs I see in houses where there are thick ugly cables slapped to the side of the walls and door frames.

An external TV aerial cable will be run to the central point, with a splitter/booster and from there cable run to each room as well. So in each room a Cable TV socket and normal coax TV aerial socket as well. All run back to the same central point.

Once again, thanks.

 

[RickMoore]

IRS - integrated reception system.
Rf2 - 2nd coaxial output from sky reciever.

Before you can get a definitive answer to exactly what you need cable wise you need to decide what equipment you are going to use. But twin cat6 single cat 5 and twin wf100 should cover most options. No need to run seperate cables for satellite and aerial as they can be multiplexed onto the same cable. It is a good idea to run a seperate coax for catv though.

A good av installer would be very keen to run cables at first fix and woukd likely do a better job with the types of cable required then most electricians would especially If they are to second fix the system as well. You cant treat cat6 etc like twin and earth and few electricians seem to grasp that. The amount of times I see data and coax bundled with mains is shocking and it can stop a system working correctly.

You can have independent tv from a central point if you want. It depends how comicated you want/need it to be.

 

[Brightonguy]

Thanks Rick. It is getting clearer. A did Google and this informative site came up.

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Structured_wiring_system

What do you think?

Just a snippet. A coax coming down from the roof aerial can go into a box (splitter) and come out on Cat6 cable using the RJ45 (?) plugs? And any TV can use an RJ45 plug into the Cat6 wall socket in each room rather than a coax socket?

What is catv?

Once again thanks.

 

[RickMoore]

Personally I would stick to coax for uhf cable and satellite cable. Introducing baluns for the sake of it just ads un needed complications. I personally try and avoid using a single catagory cable for more than one application unless I have to. It leaves spare cores that can be used later if needed.

The combination of cable I suggest will allow you to have twin aerial / sat / fm in each room from the coax. The catagory cable can be used for any combination of data, phone and / or hdmi over cat that you may need.

Catv - cable tv

 

[Sam Gangee]

though be aware SKY have pulled the RF2 output on their latest generation boxes so that would need taking into consideration.

Only inasmuch that the external IO module would be required.

 

[SimonH2]

A good av installer would be very keen to run cables at first fix and woukd likely do a better job with the types of cable required then most electricians would especially If they are to second fix the system as well. You cant treat cat6 etc like twin and earth and few electricians seem to grasp that.

I'll second that. While there are some good sparkies that understand it, I've done a few jobs at work involving following the sparkies round terminating cables, and to say they are clueless would be an understatement.
Some seem to have a poor grasp of how they're supposed to be handling the mains cables

Worst of all is where the sparkies have "designed" the cabling

 

[RickMoore]

Worst of all is where the sparkies have "designed" the cabling

Too true. Often ends up labgear crap with points wired in a ring lol

 

[Lucid]

... likely do a better job with the types of cable required then most electricians would especially If they are to second fix the system as well. You cant treat cat6 etc like twin and earth and few electricians seem to grasp that. The amount of times I see data and coax bundled with mains is shocking and it can stop a system working correctly.

I've done a few jobs at work involving following the sparkies round terminating cables, and to say they are clueless would be an understatement.

Worst of all is where the sparkies have "designed" the cabling

^^^ These points ^^^

Never ever trust a spark to do anything AV without a written plan and a signed specification agreement.

I've lost count of the number of times where a spark has installed cheap crappy cable: TV coax for digital with no foil shield and barely any copper braid shield. TV sockets wired daisy chain fashion. Cat cable that is copper clad aluminium. In fact I've just come from a job up in Cumbria where the spark has run Cat6 cable but it's all copper clad aluminium. I was asked to terminate at sockets and with some Cat6 plugs on fly leads. The aluminium isn't anywhere near as robust as solid copper. That doesn't bode well for longevity. I asked the spark about it. He just bought the cheapest Cat6 from his wholesaler. He thought he was paying for the name in the more expensive product.

 

[Brightonguy]

In my case, all points in all rooms will have a cable that runs back to a central point. Running that cable is well within the capabilities of the average electrician. Connecting it all up at the central point may be beyond him, but I see no reason why he can't do the first fix wiring in a building shell.

So quality copper Cat6 is the way from what I read here. The web site link I gave says that the Cat6 can do telephone, TV from the aerial, cable TV, broadband - the lot. If that is the case then it is quality Cat6 all around.

The room sockets, I assume would be JR45 socket?

 

[RickMoore]

Your average electrician will make a mess. And if they knew what they were doing they woukd be able to tell answer all your questions without hesitation. I wouldnt intrduce baluns for the sake of it as already said.

Slightly o/t but why ask for advice then utterly reject half of it because of an internet article. You did exactly the same with Dan over on the plumbing forum, and despite how right he is about discharge pipes and low loss headers you seem to think you know better.So why ask in the first place ?

 

[SimonH2]

In my case, all points in all rooms will have a cable that runs back to a central point. Running that cable is well within the capabilities of the average electrician. Connecting it all up at the central point may be beyond him, but I see no reason why he can't do the first fix wiring in a building shell.

As long as he knows how to handle it.
Also, insist that all cables MUST be clearly and indelibly marked (numbered) at each end. There's nothing quite like having a couple of dozen unlabelled network cables to try and sort out - more so when there's over 100 with "hard to read" numbering

So quality copper Cat6 is the way from what I read here. The web site link I gave says that the Cat6 can do telephone, TV from the aerial, cable TV, broadband - the lot. If that is the case then it is quality Cat6 all around.

As already said, you want some coax as well. Proper, decent, copper foil and copper braid stuff.

Never ever trust a spark to do anything AV without a written plan and a signed specification agreement.

And then, check !

I've lost count of the number of times where a spark has installed cheap crappy cable: TV coax for digital with no foil shield and barely any copper braid shield.

Yup - even when told what they have to use, just put the cheapest stuff in that I'd not even use as a washing line. Had to pull it out and replace it.

Cat cable that is copper clad aluminium. In fact I've just come from a job up in Cumbria where the spark has run Cat6 cable but it's all copper clad aluminium. I was asked to terminate at sockets and with some Cat6 plugs on fly leads. The aluminium isn't anywhere near as robust as solid copper. That doesn't bode well for longevity. I asked the spark about it. He just bought the cheapest Cat6 from his wholesaler. He thought he was paying for the name in the more expensive product.

He didn't buy Cat 6 - the spec for the cable is solid copper, so if it isn't copper it isn't Cat 6 (or Cat 5e or whatever). He should have been told to rip it all out and replace it - you WILL have problems with it sooner or later (white aluminium oxide powder has neither mechanical strength nor conductivity). When you see CCA cable being sold, it is not usually sold as Cat5e or Cat6 - because most of the people selling it know that it isn't and they'd be committing fraud to sell it as such. You may see some cleaver wording designed to imply that it is Cat5e/Cat6, and a few charlatans just lying, so you need to keep your wits about you.

 

[Brightonguy]

So quality copper Cat6 is the way from what I read here. The web site link I gave says that the Cat6 can do telephone, TV from the aerial, cable TV, broadband - the lot. If that is the case then it is quality Cat6 all around.

As already said, you want some coax as well. Proper, decent, copper foil and copper braid stuff.

SimonH2 does that mean a socket for the coax in each room along with a RJ45 socket next to it as well?

Yes labelling all the cables is essential.

 

[SimonH2]

Yes.
Personally I'd put two in, just in case you change your mind and want Sky+, or Freesat+, or (any sat or terrestrial) along side cable, or some other permutation.
For data cables, bear in mind that you'll want TWO Cat5e or Cat6 cables for a full HDMI link, and a separate one for a network connection (eg if you have a smart TV).

With care, you can get 2x F connector in a 1/2 width Euromodule blank plate - buy coupler barrels with nuts, drill two holes, fit barrels. Connect cable to rear of barrels with F connectors - but you need very deep boxes. That means you can get 3x data sockets (aka RJ45, 1/2 module each) plus 2x F connectors in a double wallplate.