Solar Energy

A suitable 'energy meter' (e.g. the Wattson) has two separate clamps, one on a cable for the consumed power and one for the generated power. The clamps can't detect the direction of power flow, but the meter knows to subtract one from the other.
As recently discussed here, it is possible to have a single clamp meter/sensor which can detect direction of energy flow - but since that requires appreciable additional complexity, I find it hard to believe that it would be built into any 'standard energy meter'.

Kind Regards, John
 
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Yes, no doubt. I was addressing my remarks to the OP (remember him?) and talking about real-world devices he may have already bought or easily be able to buy.
 
Yes, no doubt. I was addressing my remarks to the OP (remember him?) and talking about real-world devices he may have already bought or easily be able to buy.
Yes, I think I remember him - I think he would be the one whose question I answered in the very first response to his OP, and who obviously already has bought some sort of 'energy meter'.

I would imagine, although may be wrong, that if his energy meter had a second clamp for use in a solar installation he would probably have noticed and/or mentioned it.

Kind Regards, John
 
Those so called energy meters are mis sold or mis given away. They don't measure watts, they measure current and deduce watts assuming a constant voltage (of what) and unity power factor, neither of which happens in practice. Also they can't differentiate direction of current. If they could there would be instructions telling you which way to clamp it to the cable with an arrow.
 
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Those so called energy meters are mis sold or mis given away. They don't measure watts, they measure current and deduce watts assuming a constant voltage (of what) and unity power factor, neither of which happens in practice. Also they can't differentiate direction of current. If they could there would be instructions telling you which way to clamp it to the cable with an arrow.
All true. However, if one accepts all that (and few people really want or need accurate measurements), I'm sure that some people find them useful as rough indicators of changes in their energy usage.

Kind Regards, John
 
Thanks to all of you for a lively discussion. John, you are correct in assuming that it is the clip on meter I am concerned about. I would have thought that as the solar system is producing sufficient power for the current load then the demand from the grid is zero or less and the energy monitor should show this. On the point of clip on current transformers, I downloaded instructions for one of the water heater diverters, and in the setup section you needed to swop the wires around if the unit did not work correctly! I always understood that a current transformer gave an AC output so how would swapping wires show the direction of flow od an AC supply.
 
Which brand and model of energy monitor are you using? (it is called an energy monitor, not a meter)

Does your real electricity meter have a blinking red light, and does it ever turn dim green? Can you see the make and model of the meter?
 
Thanks for your interest, John. The energy monitor is an Owl, supplied by British Gas. My Meter is LLandis & Gyr 5235A and the solar output meter is 5235B. Both have flashing red lights, flash frequency faster on higher loads.
An interesting point, whilst typing this reply the wife spotted the energy meter shot up to a 1000 plus when the sun came out, so it seems that it is reading both ways! At the time of starting this thread the solar was around 600 and load around 300 so it appears that I confused the issue - a minus sign on the display would help. I will check for a green light on the meter next time I get full sun, its snowing now.

Regards

Ron
 
Thanks to all of you for a lively discussion. John, you are correct in assuming that it is the clip on meter I am concerned about. I would have thought that as the solar system is producing sufficient power for the current load then the demand from the grid is zero or less and the energy monitor should show this.
As has been discussed, your energy monitor is almost certainly giving you a figure for net energy flow (without knowing about direction of flow). If you were generating 600W and using 300W, that would leave 300W to be exported to the grid, and that is probably what your energy monitor would show (and, not being able to distinguish flow in different directions, that will 'look the same' as if you were importing 300W from the grid). If, whilst you were generating 600W, you increased your usage from 300W up to 500W, that would leave just 100W to be exported to the grid, and I suspect that is what your energy monitor would show.
On the point of clip on current transformers, I downloaded instructions for one of the water heater diverters, and in the setup section you needed to swop the wires around if the unit did not work correctly! I always understood that a current transformer gave an AC output so how would swapping wires show the direction of flow od an AC supply.
Without seeing more information, I don't know exactly what that current transformer is doing. However, although the output of a current transformer will be AC, and of identical magnitude no matter which way around one connects it, the phase of the AC will be reversed by swapping the connections (analogous to reversing DC polarity if you swap the connections to, say, a battery). It may have nothing to do with this but, as discussed at length above, the relationship between phase of the current and phase of the voltage can be used to determine the direction of energy flow).

Kind Regards, John
 
An interesting point, whilst typing this reply the wife spotted the energy meter shot up to a 1000 plus when the sun came out, so it seems that it is reading both ways! At the time of starting this thread the solar was around 600 and load around 300 so it appears that I confused the issue - a minus sign on the display would help.
As I just wrote, that it's exactly what one would expect (and, conversely, one would expect the observed reading to fall if the sun suddenly disappeared behind a black cloud). It's obviously true that "a minus sign on the display would help you" but a simple energy monitor like the Owl does not, and cannot, know which direction the energy is flowing, so it would not know when to display the minus sign - a simple monitor like an Owl cannot tell the difference between 300W being exported and 300W being imported.

Kind Regards, John
 
I have an Owl and it is not very accurate. Within about half a kW I should say. I can tell by comparing what the Owl says to what the electricity meter says. If I turn lights or a kettle on and off, the reading changes but not accurately by what the load has changed by.

If you had two owls you could put one on the AC tail from your inverter and one on the tail from your meter, but I don't know that they have a way of adding or subtracting, you would have to make an educated guess. of which way it was going.
 
It seems that, contrary to my first assumption, that the Owl is indicating that the solar is working OK. As I will know when a high load is on e.g kettle and my normal ambient is circa 300 watts, the Owl will give a reasonable idea of the amount exported to the grid. I checked the supplier meter when 1200watts was exporting and the red light was on steady and possibly (and not certain) a very dim green light adjacent to it.
 
I don't know about that meter, but some show the dim green LED when exporting.
 
The owl being battery operated cannot obtain any indication of the phase of the voltage so cannot determine the direction of energy flow. They obviously assume energy will only flow from meter to consumer unit.

A mains powered device would have access to the Live relative to Neutral voltage so could determine the direction of energy flow.
 

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