standby ring main to save money at night?

[davet0_uk]

I am about to start first fit on my conversion. I just putting in the ring mains. downstairs, I would like to put in two rings.

1) Normal ring
2) Switched ring.

The idea is that, stuff thats needs to stay on all the time (i.e. the fridge etc) would be on the normal ring as per normal.

BUT, I would like to have a separate ring that I can completely switch off at night - (like the TV on stand by, the microwave etc) The idea is, that on my way to bed, I flick a switch and the switch ring goes off, hence turning off all of those things that would normally have been sat there on standby all night off. Then first one up, puts them all back on... hence we save the money overnight when all are in bed.

So my questions are,

1) what does building regs make of this?
2) Do I wire this say with 6mm coming out of the 32A RCB from the main DIST box, going to say a cooker switch, and then from the cooker switch start the ring as normal? Or any other suggestions??

Any thoughts or suggestions from you guys would be much appreciated.

thanks

Dave

 

[Lectrician]

I have fitted at request this sort of thing.

In pubs, we have wired a ring circuit below the counter for coolers etc, and then have a switched radial for the pump lights/electronics. This allows a single switch to kill said devices.

The trouble always is when people clean the shelves, move glasses, move equipments, add new stuff etc..........The sockets get muddled even if you use different coloured ones!

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I am about to start first fit on my conversion.

Is this in either England or Wales?

I just putting in the ring mains. downstairs, I would like to put in two rings.

Isn't it a bit late in the day to be asking such fundamental design decision questions as this?

Don't you think that you should have ensured that you had this level of knowledge before starting an entire electrical installation?

1) what does building regs make of this?

If this work is within the scope of the Building Regulations, what did you tell Building Control you would be doing to ensure that you complied with them when you submitted your request for Building Regulations approval?

Don't you think it's a bit late in the day to be trying to fund out what the legal requirements are?

2) Do I wire this say with 6mm coming out of the 32A RCB from the main DIST box, going to say a cooker switch, and then from the cooker switch start the ring as normal? Or any other suggestions??

Why do you think you should use a cooker switch? Is it a cooker circuit?

Any thoughts or suggestions from you guys would be much appreciated.

I suggest this.


Given your questions it is abundantly clear that your knowledge is not yet sufficient for this work.

Yes it could become so, yes you can learn, and yes, asking questions here can be part of the process, but asking basic questions like these in relation to work that's in progress is not the way to ensure that you learn everything you need to know. You'll only ask about things you realise you don't know, so what about your "unknown unknowns"? What if you completely fail to find out about something important because you have absolutely no idea it exists?

IMO the only responsible advice you should be given is to get someone competent to do the electrical work for you.

 

[ericmark]

Although with old TV's on standby the tube was kept warm and a lot of power was used on standby with new TV's standby uses about 1W and if using an old video recorder then soon we will lose the time signal from analogue TV broad casts so every time you switch off you will need to reset the time. Also the TV can be set to switch to Freeview box mode so you can record Freeview programs with an old video recorder without the need for extra Freeview box. Or at least you can with my TV all this requires the time to be set correctly. My TV uses 1W on standby that's 1/10 of the power used by my cordless telephones. And when using freeview box bit only of TV it uses 15W and normal viewing 115W when I looked at my daughter's TV different make it was also 1W on standby that's less than half a pence a day. Even computers need careful consideration if un-plugged then the lithium cell has to maintain date etc. But if left plugged in than mains supply is used. The lithium cells are far more of a problem to change and cost more per unit power than mains so are we really helping by un-plugging? Freeview boxes up-date in the middle of the night so again do you really want to unplug? If you are also willing to use no cordless phones or any other cordless equipment and reduce any battery backed equipment to min then maybe duel ring main is next step but saving will be so low it would take 20 odd years to pay for itself.
Eric

 

[tlps]

Isn't it a case of everyone doing their little bit. Ojk so one person saving £30 a year on electricity isn't going to do much for the environment, but multiply that by every house hold and business in the country and every business and household in the world you uses electricity, some with old machines that do use lots of power and thats a huge saving not just in terms of money, but if the demand for electricty falls, then the cost of electricty will fall (supply and demand) and the CO2 output will fall.

What government are trying to achieve are their own targets on CO2, and selling it to the voter as a way they can save money as by far more people are interested in saving money than saving the environment from something that might happen long after they are dead.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Ojk so one person saving £30 a year on electricity isn't going to do much for the environment, but multiply that by every house hold and business in the country

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4620350.stm
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.
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[JohnD]

I had a look at that link and although it threw some big numbers around (guesswork) it didn't say what proportion of total power consumption goes on the stand-by TVs and things

My guess is that you will save heaps and heaps more energy by fitting CFLs, draughtproofing and insulation, and by having and using good controls on your heating system.

My house ate over 80 kWh/day gas on heating in the recent frosty weather, and 24 kWh/day on electricity (including some health-related overnight heating)

What would the standby-TVs have used?

 

[ericmark]

On the 22nd January 2006 I would think there were far more old cathode ray tube TV's around but today most people have changed to a LCD or other electronic display method. I looked for details of both PC monitor and old TV but they don't give standby current. Only the new one gives that information.
It does say "At Gleneagles, G8 leaders - led by the UK - agreed to promote the application of the IEA's One Watt initiative which aims to reduce standby requirements for all new appliances to below one Watt by 2010," and it seems that is in fact what has happened since the article was written.
And today to say "Some of these standby modes for televisions use two-thirds of the electricity that it would if it were on." would be misleading to say the least plus of course the question must be asked "How do they know" my wife worked in market research and it is so easy to put words and ideas into peoples mouths without breaking any of the rules and I for one have never been asked what is in my home.
I think the biggest and cheapest saving would be to switch off all those bathroom and kitchen fans not only in power they use but also in heat wasted as it is blown away.
Eric

 

[holmslaw]

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[JohnD]

that is incorrect.

On some recent occasions the demand for energy has been very high, and demand constained, and this drives prices up.

You can now buy electricity from a number of dealers, who buy it at a market price and seek to maximise their profits. If one or more big companies try to charge exxcessively high prices, they open the market to other dealers who can sell it cheaper and make a profit for themselves.

The days of the REC having a local monopoly are gone in the UK.

I think you should lobby the Congolese government for market liberalisation in your own country.

 

[holmslaw]

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[davet0_uk]

Is this in either England or Wales?

its wales

Don't you think that you should have ensured that you had this level of knowledge before starting an entire electrical installation?

I think you missed the point, I am about to START!! isnt this the perfect time to ask a question?? When do ask questions?

If this work is within the scope of the Building Regulations, what did you tell Building Control you would be doing to ensure that you complied with them when you submitted your request for Building Regulations approval

?

Building control notified, when we submitted the detailed drawings. but only marking the position of switches/sockets (I thought you would have know this?). clearly if I wanted a bog standard installation then I would just continue, but was looking for others that may have considered this sort of innovation.

Why do you think you should use a cooker switch? Is it a cooker circuit?

Because if its a 32A protected ring, then you need a switch (that looks presentable - i.e. not a 100A industrial isolator) therefore I picked on the cooker switch as an example - do you have any other examples then other than a cooker switch? A supplier would help?

Given your questions it is abundantly clear that your knowledge is not yet sufficient for this work.

WOW! we are judgemental are'nt we. 20 years ago I was a time served electrian, (thats when I was working to the 15th edition) and standby and microwaves were not so common, plus this is not my day job any more and stuff has certaily moved on.

I'll keep you informed about how I got on...

 

[davet0_uk]

Guys,

let me fill you all in on some background, before I started this little project (that you will see on channel 5 in April) I characterized my power consumption. My family were living in a bog standard link detached, 4 beds nothing special. So I bought a clamp meter just to see what the fuss was about with standby and is it really worth turning stuff.

What I discovered is that when I get into bed (everybody asleep) no heating running etc. that I was using 220ws !! that is more than the LEDs on the TV, so I investigated, and I found that fidge/freezer was using around 125w when on - well thats an evil my lifestyle dictates , but where was the other 95w going?

Believe it or not, a Panasconic combi microwave oven was using a cool 85w in standby!! I was shocked - sitting there telling me the time for 85w- it is just burning money and making carbon - not for me.

(before you ask.... - I could not measure any phase angle distortions and hence all quoted powers here are quoted in apparent power (VA) - it could have been kidding me about the true power, but then why would a microwave in standy be distorting the PF so much?, its not running and hence should not have presented a large inductive load)

The remaining juice (~ 10w) was taking up by computers / TVs / video sitting in standby all of which could be turned off - I wonder if every house saved 10w how much that would add up to?

So, this is why I would like a standby ring...

OUt of interest, have any of you guys measure your standby before bed?

 

[Chri5]

Radials would be the way forward with 20a switches maybe with eons to confirm on / off.

As for sockets, colour or style deviation could be used. I'd use the ones with the earth pin turned and buy plugs for all standby items.

It is a valid argument that the cost of cable, running double amounts of cable, buying specialised sockets, have extra MCB's and RCD's or RCBO's, the likely hood of having a separate CU (if you have TV's and PC's around the house, I think you will need standby grd flr, standby kitchen, standby garage, standby 1st floor) will all mean the pay back is tiny over 20 years.

What's wrong with power saver intelligent gang sockets ?

 

[holmslaw]

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