Stock market dealing

[morqthana]

Shorting is immoral, but investing in stock is how businesses grow.

Actually, TBF, I can see where you're coming from.

Nobody thinks it's immoral to buy shares in Acme Anvils because you think the price is going to rise, and if it doesn't rise, or if it falls, you lose nothing or you lose a bit. So is it immoral to buy call options in Acme Anvils and leverage your investment to make a higher return, at the risk of a complete loss if the price falls or remains the same?

And if that's OK, is it immoral to buy put options if you think the price is going to fall, and lose if it stays the same or rises?

But the problem is deciding where does legitimate hedging to protect against price fluctuations of commodities you have to buy, or assets you own, morph into a bit of speculation because you think the price of something is going to fall, morph into flooding the market with billions in short selling to drive the price down?

 

[motorbiking]

Ask yourself what is the purpose of shorting. Then ask why shorters then spread as much noise as they can about the short.

The goal is to damage the company being shorted, to make money, Costing jobs etc. If you don’t rate the company don’t buy the stock.

 

[morqthana]

Is that the goal?

Do you have any examples of short selling having damaged a company and cost jobs? I did a search but couldn't find any.

 

[Justin Passing]

Moderna, the drugs company, had a good day. They announced a cancer treatment for melanomas, which passed the tests. They say they should be able to make it work for some other cancers. That's big.
I've used whacky companies before with good news, for crazy price rises, but never one of this size and importance. The size means the platform limit is big enough to not be a restriction which can be annoying - like if you're allowed to buy 39 shares, really, For Moderna it's at 39 million bucks. Also, this isn't a tin-pot company where the price is likely to suddenly drop like a rock.
So I went in heavy when I heard the news on Bloomberg about midday. Enough for a chav's Wagon. The stock rose 64%, and it's leveraged at 5x, so that's a rise of 320%.
That combination is unusual.

Oh, and, if the drug starts killing people, I'll crash and I'll try to do the same, short.
However a company is doing, either direction, the Market is a positive feedback mechanism, so it'll push it until it reverses or dies, every single time.
Ask Lehman Brothers or Bear Stearns.
Morality in this context is an irrelevant artifice to me.

 

[Justin Passing]

I've been watching Moderna all day. So far it's down 21% so I've been shorting it.
At 5:1 that's more than doubled my dosh today.

Anyone need a G-Wagon? I don't. I got three yesterday...


Immoral? It's up one day and down the next. So what?

 

[morqthana]

Ask ... Bear Stearns.

 

[Dereekoo]

I've been watching Moderna all day. So far it's down 21% so I've been shorting it.
At 5:1 that's more than doubled my dosh today.

Anyone need a G-Wagon? I don't. I got three yesterday...


Immoral? It's up one day and down the next. So what?

Whats a G wagon is it like a G string

 

[Justin Passing]

Whats a G wagon is it like a G string

These things. Drug dealers use them apparently. Just what I need for getting µwave meals from Lidl.
.

That'll do, really. I'll stick the 2 days' proceeds into an account, all in one fund, and leave it there. It'll probably still be there when I peg it.

 

[Justin Passing]

I think a tech-driven collapse is imminent. Right now gold is good, but that can flip too.

 

[Justin Passing]

I wondered if anyone would react to that 2/3 days last week, when I made over £1m as described..
I stuck it in its own account, not for any very good reason.
I'm getting older and having more trouble concentrating, and frankly I've got enough.
I'm also getting more old-man's stuff going wrong. Recently I've been falling asleep every couple of hours, I'm a bundle of pins and needles and falling over. B12? Dunno yet.
There are also the undeniable numbers. The whole stock market is at price to earnings ratios which are very extended.
Prices go up because they go up; people think they want some of that so buy. Which pushes the prices up. Etc.
Justification is found in the wild profits which companies are returning at the moment.

The nuts and bolts of AI, and the picks and shovels which allow those to go together, are very expensive because there's more demand than supply.
All the players are borrowing like crazy to be able to afford the components they need to make more stuff.
The promise is along the lines, that all companies in the world are going to be able to be so much more productive, using AI.
I'm not an economist, I don't know where the money keeps coming from, other than a printer.

The room's elephant may be China.
They've done it before. They came up with Deepseek and the market had a fit. Deepseek's not the best, but it's very cheap for businesses. It's improving, and for many it'll be Good Enough.
The same will be true, one day all of a sudden, for memory, then processing, and the whole "stack" of AI components.

So I'm taking my money and being very conservative where I put it.

There are some standard options. Things like Index funds. But they're a pain to live with. They have alarming "drawdowns", where your stash drops a lot.

I'll mostly use the orangey red one, because it wiggles very little.

I can keep some to play with, some in flavors of the month, maybe make another bit now and again.
If it does the same 15.5% pa, that would be great, though at the moment its about 8%. still ok.
8% less 24% CGT = ~6%
whereas in a bldg soc
4.5% less income tax at 40% =~2.7%

 

[kingandy2nd]

Well played on making another fortune Justin.

I wish you would focus a little bit more on you and your well-being than the money.

Spend some on the best medical or other care that money can buy…please.

Take care mate