Tax ISAs (and what is 'significant wealth'?)

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Some of you have probably seen this reported. The Resolution Foundation think tank is suggesting a tax free limit of £100k for ISAs, estimating ~£1 billion could be raised in taxes if this limit was set.

If you read the article I've linked to, I personally find some of the wording and assumptions by this think tank to be quite offensive. The underlying assertion is the UK, on a wider scale, is not a nation of savers and that current saving schemes are skewed to 'those who already have significant wealth.' They further assert ISA rules are 'heavily skewed towards helping richer households.'

There's too much for me to go into here on what I think about this proposal and the wider assertions this think tank makes. I understand it can be argued if an individual or family can afford to 'put away' £20k per year into an ISA, they're perhaps in a better financial position than many. However do they fall into the bracket of having significant wealth? I suppose it's all relative. I myself wouldn't class holding ~£100k of savings/investments as equating to significant wealth.

The other point I'll make is this. Of course there are people in society that can't save to any meaningful level, and some not at all. However, as we've discussed on here in other threads, surely it also comes down to priorities (for some, I'm not saying everyone before anyone starts!) For example, there will be some people on lower incomes that could be putting something aside each month if they really wanted to. However they'll possibly choose to have 2-3 extra takeaways each month that they don't really need, or to have a tv/broadband package that isn't really required. The same holds true for those on higher incomes who still 'can't save.' Do they need the bigger house, the lease cars replaced every 2-3 years, the expensive holiday, the new kitchen every 5 years etc etc.

My underlying point is this. Many people who don't save could be saving something if they put their mind to it. Also, not everyone that puts money into ISAs holds significant wealth. Many people will sacrifice on other things to put money into an ISA, whether that be £1k, £5k, £10k, £15k or £20k per annum. And the proposal is to tax them for being prudent with their money?

Would be interested in your thoughts on this. Do you agree with the proposal? Do you think £100k savings equates to significant wealth?

 
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If you can save £20k a year you're well off.

That's £1600 a month. If you're able to save that much you don't need the extra help an ISA provides by allowing you to avoid taxes.

Between 1999 and 2008 the limit was £3,000 a year. That helps those that are saving at the low end. The limit of £20,000 a year is just silly and having £100,000 in cash does mean you're doing well and don't need help.
 
People who have a spare £20,000 to squirrel away each year, and people who have more than £100,000 tucked away, are significantly richer than most of the population.

You should be aware that most wealth in UK is held in real estate and in pension schemes. Obviously we should be taxing most of the wealth. But we don't. This is deliberate.

As we have seen all too clearly this week, the UK tax system has been designed to bear most heavily on the ordinary working man paying income tax and NI, and to give an easy ride to those who are richer.
 
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People who have a spare £20,000 to squirrel away each year, and people who have more than £100,000 tucked away, are significantly richer than most of the population.

You should be aware that most wealth in UK is held in real estate and in pension schemes. Obviously we should be taxing most of the wealth. But we don't. This is deliberate.

As we have seen all too clearly this week, the UK tax system has been designed to bear most heavily on the ordinary working man paying income tax and NI, and to give an easy ride to those who are richer.
T'was ever thus.

Brits used to be a 'nation of savers' but after Maggie's Big City Boom in '86 everyone was encouraged to buy-now-pay-later 'don't worry about the small print'. As interest rates have been held at 0% for years it's hardly worth putting a few quid by for a rainy day. Now it's pi$$in' down.

If you can walk into Harrods and just point at things for a flunkey to collect, then i'd call that 'significant wealth'.
 
As we have seen all too clearly this week, the UK tax system has been designed to bear most heavily on the ordinary working man paying income tax and NI,
Did you pay any tax or NI on the first £2k of those dividends you boasted of earning on your investments?
 
People who have a spare £20,000 to squirrel away each year, and people who have more than £100,000 tucked away, are significantly richer than most of the population.
Depends on how old you are and whether you have any other significant expenses. A couple in their 20/30’s with a mortgage and a couple of kids might not. Some in their 50/60/70’s with the mortgage paid off and kids off hand might well have that money and more 'squirrelled' away.

Some mystery members on here boast of having much, much more:

I've got approximately £950k in pension pots/investments/currencies, and still rising...
 
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An interesting article on tax and tax-dodgers, from a rich person.


"Each time this government is caught out for antisocial conduct and fails to sanction its own, it sends a message that antisocial behaviour is OK. It is not. Being “careless” in relation to paying tax due isn’t just a bit cheeky, it doesn’t make you a geezer or a smart businessman. But that’s the message that this government seems to portray.

Paying tax pays for our NHS, cares for our pensioners, educates our kids and defends our country. It is not optional, and those with wealth are in the privileged position to contribute more. Those who then fail to pay or are “careless” about paying their legally required share need to be called out as unfit to govern.

The low-tax, small-state dogma that this government is still blindly clinging to is an out-of-date concept. It never was fit for purpose, and with the scale of the crises layering one on top of the other, it certainly isn’t now. It is not only old, discredited economics, it is irresponsible and contrary to family values. It lets down our ageing population and it totally lets down our young people. We require a government that steps up and tackles the multiple crises facing the British people – from dangerous climate change to the cost of living, energy, health and social care crises.

We need a government that treats tax as vital investment, not a dirty word. We need a government that stops treating taxing the wealthiest people in society as off the cards. For too long we have expected too little from ultra-wealthy people, assuming that they have to be pandered to; that we shouldn’t ask too much of them or they’ll pack up their toys and leave in a huff. That’s not good enough. We don’t accept that attitude from our kids so we shouldn’t accept it from wealthy people, or the political elite setting the rules in their favour. Plus good luck getting a London mansion or a grouse moor in your suitcase!"

The full article contains more.

 
Its got nothing to do with tax.. It's the dismal returns we've had for the last 15 years.

People who have a spare £20,000 to squirrel away each year, and people who have more than £100,000 tucked away, are significantly richer than most of the population.

You should be aware that most wealth in UK is held in real estate and in pension schemes. Obviously we should be taxing most of the wealth. But we don't. This is deliberate.

As we have seen all too clearly this week, the UK tax system has been designed to bear most heavily on the ordinary working man paying income tax and NI, and to give an easy ride to those who are richer.
Obvious to you because its your opinion. Make those with more money than you pay more than you, so you can pay less. Yes we'd all like that.

That works fine until those people being over taxed, move their wealth somewhere else as happens.
 
Paying tax pays for our NHS, cares for our pensioners, educates our kids and defends our country. It is not optional, and those with wealth are in the privileged position to contribute more.
I read this a while back as an example of fair play...

(one of our relatives is living/studying there for a while and shared it)

Linky
 
Not a bad post diy apart from right wing snide comments about a certain class of people who don't need entertainment or the internet that by no means applies to all. I blame TV programs. They want to demonstrate something or the other so pick extreme examples and some think there are loads of similar around. I know a number of people that don't have much and do not live as you are suggesting. I also realise why they want to own a mobile and maybe an internet service. Excess food is an interesting area. Any supermarket will tell you people like to buy packs rather than what they need. Really????

Tax ISA's when holdings reach some level? I have known people with income from various sources who take out the max as often as they can. No point unless they show a return over inflation levels. They have in the past. The way things are going at the moment they wont even with the recent increases. I'd guess the return needs to match or exceed the current base rate as that changes. The BofE wants savings to show a better return. ;) I think the emergency levels were a bad mistake and they may even realise that.

So tax at some level. There may be a way of automating that so people don't have to fill in a tax return each year. People with plenty in will shift to putting it somewhere else with a better return accounting for capital gains and fill in a form every year, My father in law had that problem. For many years his returns didn't raise any taxes. They never let go. Left me with a problem when he died. I explained what had happened to the tax people and they said ok forget it.

Sounds like it may be a crackpot idea to me unless interest returns get higher but it could be another source of tax without altering income tax. The people concerned may well have already paid tax on income.

Interesting think tank. Some details here as well as finances.

Personally I like the look of USA income tax breaks, Lots of them. A feature a socialist might come up with,
 
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