Terrestrial digital ariel

[Jever]

Hi,

I've just moved into a house that has a 'traditional' type ariel (one of these ugly things: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SLX-48-EL...-WIDEBAND-WITH-FULL-INSTALL-KIT-/281229580246 ) that has detached from its mounting and is now laying on the roof tiles hanging only by the co-ax cable that feeds the signal into the house.

The picture's pretty poor/unreliable and so I want to completely renew the terrestrial digital reception arrangements, but I'm not sure of the best way to do this.

I could just replace the existing ariel, but having thought about it, I've seen portable devices pick up a signal with something as small as this:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEW-Portable-TV-Antenna-Aerial-Digital-Freeview-DVB-T-/271476819514

It also looks like I could set up one of these in the loft:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TV-Aerial...-To-50dB-Gain-DAB-Radio-Booster-/390556377713

and send the signal to the various sockets in the house.

As a non-expert, the choices seem numerous and I'm not sure what their various merits are. Is there a concensus opinion on the best/most practical way of receiving terrestrial digital?

Would appreciate some guidance

Jever

 

[footprints]

Indoor aerials are seldom much good I used to live about 3 miles from the mast at Crystal Palace and the other ITV one in Norbury in fact I had direct line of sight from my window but an indoor aeriel was never much good.

Replace the traditional roof one for the best results I had mine replaced a couple of years ago because bits kept falling off it cost me just under 100 quid.

Depends where you are on prices but should not be too much unless you live in central London

 

[Sam Gangee]

Read all of this page: http://www.satcure.co.uk/tech/best_aerial.htm

The V11-20A2 log-periodic aerial is ideal for "Group A" transmitters such as Crystal Palace and Rowridge. It also has high "4G immunity".

More info. http://www.The-Cool-Book-shop.co.uk/satellite_freeview.htm#freeview

Last edited by Fred Flintstone on Sat May 10, 2014 6:04 pm, edited 2 times in total

 

[Lucid]

Have to agree that indoor aerials are very hit and miss. ....and mostly miss.
They actually have negative gain in a lot of cases. It's no wonder that they need such large amplifiers to produce any kind of signal at the TV. Try one if you wish. Just make sure you buy it from a place that accepts returns.

With the addition of the new HD channel Muxes in my region (the North West), the only sensible aerial choice is an amplified Log Periodic. I'm seeing a lot of other installers following suit and all the new developments are having Logs fitted as well.

 

[Sureitsoff?]

whereabout in norfolk are you. i will guess that you will receive from tacolnesten transmitter so as others have said a log periodic aerial will probably be a good buy. if you are looking to renew it surely must pay to go for a high quality install from the outset as that is the only way to get good reliable signals

 

[Sam Gangee]

With the addition of the new HD channel Muxes in my region (the North West), the only sensible aerial choice is an amplified Log Periodic.

My friend near Crewe has a V10-040, which works perfectly without any amplifier. His cable run down the gable end is quite short.

Another friend has a similar setup and the aerial signal goes through his Sky Digibox to his TV. Again no amplifier - except that the Digibox RF2 then goes to a 7dB distribution amplifier that feeds four other rooms. In this case, the amplifier is compensating for the additional (1dB) cable losses and the 4-way splitting of the signal. It has nothing to do with the aerial choice.

Consequently, I'd say: "in my region (the North West), the only sensible aerial choice is a Log Periodic", with an amplifier if required.

I would be suspicious of any aerial with a built-in amplifier. In general, this is an attempt to compensate for an aerial that is too small. In addition, the full specification of such a built-in amplifier is often not provided, so you have no idea what you are getting.

 

[plugwash]

I'm also in the north west and at my parents house we had a lot of trouble with freezes on some channels before the analog switchoff and repeatedly tried to improve the aerial distribution in our house (we did consider getting the roof aerial replaced but we never got arround to it) with only marginal improvements.

But since the switchoff no trouble at all.

 

[SimonH2]

At my SO's house, I've just (temporarily, it'll be going on the chimney when I get some internal cabling sorted out) put a Log Periodic 36 in the attic. We're about 40 miles from Winter Hill, not quite line os sight, and it points through two thicknesses of brick (cavity gable end wall). Now I've got it pointed in the right direction, we get good reception on all the SD muxes.

 

[Lucid]

With the addition of the new HD channel Muxes in my region (the North West), the only sensible aerial choice is an amplified Log Periodic.

My friend near Crewe has a V10-040, which works perfectly without any amplifier. His cable run down the gable end is quite short.

Another friend has a similar setup and the aerial signal goes through his Sky Digibox to his TV. Again no amplifier - except that the Digibox RF2 then goes to a 7dB distribution amplifier that feeds four other rooms. In this case, the amplifier is compensating for the additional (1dB) cable losses and the 4-way splitting of the signal. It has nothing to do with the aerial choice.

Consequently, I'd say: "in my region (the North West), the only sensible aerial choice is a Log Periodic", with an amplifier if required.

I would be suspicious of any aerial with a built-in amplifier. In general, this is an attempt to compensate for an aerial that is too small. In addition, the full specification of such a built-in amplifier is often not provided, so you have no idea what you are getting.

That's the trouble with quick replies. There's always multiple ways to interpret them.

The Log on my roof is unamplified too. I could quite easily split it a couple of times at least and still have plenty of signal at each TV point.

 

[ericmark]

I have a loop aerial off an old portable TV sitting on a stand on my windowsill which has worked better than all aerials I have had on the roof.

OK I will explain I live on a hill (Bryn) with line of sight to Moel-y-parc aerial but also have a line of sight to Winter Hill so if I stick an aerial on the roof every time I switch on the TV it seems it wants me to re-tune and the listing kept swapping from English to Welsh. While we were on analogue I wanted the English stations but now no real reason for getting Winter Hill.

The point is the TV aerial which works best is a very local issue. To be frank freeview is being messed about with so much it's a real pain even with my mothers house which only gets Winter Hill they are re-tuning so regular it's a pain having to go down and re-tune her TV yet again.

So in the main I use satellite TV it saves so much hassle with all this re-tuning and the dish is so small compared with a Yargi Beam. One tuner is Sky the others are free to air and freesat and dish is mounted low so no problem with wind. However the snow of last year did build up against the dish and stopped my TV working that has been the only fault.

I had considered going back to a banded aerial as with a banded aerial they are smaller for the same gain. However with all this re-tuning I am no longer sure they will work.

There is no such thing as a digital aerial however before digital each area had their programs grouped so we could use a banded aerial which means in turn half the weight and wind resistance handing on eves or chimney. When digital started they sipped the multiplex channels where ever they could so we had to move to a wide band aerial. When we first went to digital only the multiplex channels were again grouped allowing a return to smaller banded aerials but since then some of the spectrum has been sold off and all the channels moved around so until it is all finalised using a lighter banded aerial is a problem.

However I look down my street and I see huge aerials where I know only a three element yargi is required and the wind rips them off the landers and eves to me the local aerial installers are ripping off the people in my street there is no way anyone needs a 8 element beam to get Moel-y-parc OK may be for Winter Hill but they are around 90 degrees to each other so easy to see which is being aimed for.

But also hardly a house without a dish so clearly others like me are fed up with the freeview saga and have gone for satellite and got rid of the hassle.

 

[Sam Gangee]

Bryn (WN4 postcode) requires a log-p aerial such as a V10-28L
http://www.wolfbane.com/cgi-bin/tvd.exe?DX=L&HT=10&OS=WN4

Provided that one signal is stronger than the other, you can add a variable attenuator and wind it up towards maximum in order to cut out the weaker signal while tuning.

 

[SimonH2]

The point is the TV aerial which works best is a very local issue.

Indeed. As you point out, if your signal is strong enough then a bit of damp string will probably work. For those of us with a weaker signal, a decent aerial is needed.

To be frank freeview is being messed about with so much it's a real pain even with my mothers house which only gets Winter Hill they are re-tuning so regular it's a pain having to go down and re-tune her TV yet again.

We're on Winter Hill, I can confirm that it is indeed a right royal PITA the way they keep chopping and changing. <rant mode>I'm sure that those responsible really really don't understand what a pain it is and also don't give a s**t as long as the money rolls in. For those of us who like "logic" in their channel numbering/sequencing, having to renumber/reorder everything is just too much hassle.</rant mode>

I had considered going back to a banded aerial as with a banded aerial they are smaller for the same gain. However with all this re-tuning I am no longer sure they will work.

At the moment it's not a problem, but looking at UKFree.tv it shows that there are plans to move Winter Hill from the top of the band (group C/D) to the bottom (group A) at some point in the future.
At my parents I put up a large C/D yagi, but when I bought a new one for SOs house, I've gone with a log periodic in anticipation of this.

Provided that one signal is stronger than the other, you can add a variable attenuator and wind it up towards maximum in order to cut out the weaker signal while tuning.

That's what I did for Dad's Humax which has a sensitive receiver that picks up Moel Y Parc as well as Winter Hill. Once I'd worked out where the "sweet spot" was, I left it with a fixed attenuator (9dB).
IMO that's the benefit of a good ariel - as a mate says, "better looking at it than for it" which I reckon applies to TV signal as well as it does to cable length (my mate is a sparky). It's easier to throw some away with an attenuator than it is to find extra signal if you are short of it.

As an aside, while my SO was in hospital recently, the TV there had picked up 3 transmitters - Winter Hill, Moel Y Park, and a local infill ! Although the TV had had a go at picking the strongest signals for the primary channel numbers, some of them were wrong guesses and some of the wanted channels were up in the 800s

 

[ericmark]

I lived in Suffolk for a time which is close to where the writer lives pre-digital and there was a problem that with isotropic prorogation (CB's call it skip) the local aerial could be above the inversion and so more distant stations (Normally Dutch) had a stronger signal than local one.

Aerial needed to be very directional to stop interference from Dutch stations the local weather man was great he always warned of likely interference he was not really telling Joe public he was really telling the hams there were good conditions to play radio.

As I said it's a very local thing back in Wales I have never had the same sort of conditions where I could talk to Scandinavia on 2 meter SSB it was all due to such a flat expanse of nothing, no hills.

 

[Sam Gangee]

there was a problem that with isotropic prorogation

I suspect you mean this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tropospheric_propagation