One assumes there was not even an automated ‘Read Receipt’ sent out but the architect has printed off the sent email and is claiming that is his proof? Otherwise as you say I would say that that maybe changes things .....
the prior application ‘Notification of larger home extension
- Thread starter Razmatazz
- Start date
Sponsored Links
Hi
Thank you for your advice it really helpful.
Regarding the architect claiming that is got the proof. Yes the architect got print off the sent email and he is claiming that is his proof. He has not received any acknowledgement from the council.
the case officer call me today she said that the council is going to refuse my second application on the 29/07/14 on the base of that I already start the work, and she said you got to demolish the half build extension then reapply.
she said when you demolish the extension let me know i will come and take the photo and has to go through the neighbour consultation for the third time.
What a joke. I even say ok i knock down the half build extension and you come and take the photo that is proof for you that I did knock down the extension. So I can straight away rebuild the extension do not refuse my currant second application. I said this is been going on for the past 7 months,
But she sais no you have to knock down the extension and then reapply and it has to go through the neighbour consultation for 42 days again she was not listening to anything. she can't see any of my family pain and the niebour go through hell for the past 7 months.
I don’t know what to do. The architect is shuck as will he don’t know what to do. The architect said ok the first time they said we sent the application to the wrong email address now we send it to the right email address but she still don’t let me build the extension. This time she refusing it because we already start building the extension. I am in cercal with council I don’t know If i ever get approval for this extension from this council.
Thank you for your advice it really helpful.
Regarding the architect claiming that is got the proof. Yes the architect got print off the sent email and he is claiming that is his proof. He has not received any acknowledgement from the council.
the case officer call me today she said that the council is going to refuse my second application on the 29/07/14 on the base of that I already start the work, and she said you got to demolish the half build extension then reapply.
she said when you demolish the extension let me know i will come and take the photo and has to go through the neighbour consultation for the third time.
What a joke. I even say ok i knock down the half build extension and you come and take the photo that is proof for you that I did knock down the extension. So I can straight away rebuild the extension do not refuse my currant second application. I said this is been going on for the past 7 months,
But she sais no you have to knock down the extension and then reapply and it has to go through the neighbour consultation for 42 days again she was not listening to anything. she can't see any of my family pain and the niebour go through hell for the past 7 months.
I don’t know what to do. The architect is shuck as will he don’t know what to do. The architect said ok the first time they said we sent the application to the wrong email address now we send it to the right email address but she still don’t let me build the extension. This time she refusing it because we already start building the extension. I am in cercal with council I don’t know If i ever get approval for this extension from this council.
Jeez, this thread is getting like pulling teeth! You have no proof that the council received the email through the appropriate channels. The way the neighbourhood consultation system works is that the works cannot commence before the application is submitted. Therefore the council will not just turn a blind eye! You have to be seen to have not started work so must demolish first. Its clear as night and day. Or apply for planning permission. I really don't understand why you don't understand!
Sponsored Links
Hi
Is the email sent from architect is not suffusion proof that he did sent the email. It not like a second or first class litter so they can say we have not received. How can they say to the email that they not received? they say that sending application to this consider not received
Regarding the first application I wait for 2 months I thought they have already done the neighbours consultation that why I start the work. When they said that we do not receive my application, through the proper email address then I reapply again to the email address they give us.
This time it go through the 21 days neighbours consultation. No one abject to it. I am saying that the council already complete the 21 days consultation why they want the 42 days’ notice again for no reason. This is my point. They saying it has to start from the beginning again.
My case officer did not mansion this that I have to take down the half build extension before I reapply at the meeting. The architect said that we are going to reapply she say nothing about this. Now she says your architect should knew about this. I am saying if my architect knew about this I will be not in this position right now. That mean the architect reapply for no reason waiting another 2 months
Is the email sent from architect is not suffusion proof that he did sent the email. It not like a second or first class litter so they can say we have not received. How can they say to the email that they not received? they say that sending application to this consider not received
Regarding the first application I wait for 2 months I thought they have already done the neighbours consultation that why I start the work. When they said that we do not receive my application, through the proper email address then I reapply again to the email address they give us.
This time it go through the 21 days neighbours consultation. No one abject to it. I am saying that the council already complete the 21 days consultation why they want the 42 days’ notice again for no reason. This is my point. They saying it has to start from the beginning again.
My case officer did not mansion this that I have to take down the half build extension before I reapply at the meeting. The architect said that we are going to reapply she say nothing about this. Now she says your architect should knew about this. I am saying if my architect knew about this I will be not in this position right now. That mean the architect reapply for no reason waiting another 2 months
Razmatazz, unfortunately you find yourself in a situation that would require the case officer to have some common sense and desire to help; something which she is clearly lacking. Unfortunately to her you are a customer to generate income - she does not care about the effect on your family or your neighbours at all. There is no reason at all why the works cannot be left in their current state on the condition that failing consultation meant demolition. If you are within PD rules for the elements that are built then simple reclassify them as outbuildings/garden structures. You are entitled to build a folly in your garden if it remains within PD. Have you considered discussing your issues with a local newspaper columnist? Every regional paper has one or two who write about local stories like this and, having worked in local government for some years myself, those columns do get discussed at senior management meetings and officers can get pulled up to explain them. The best ones make it onto staff noticeboards.
[little side rant...]
There are two types of officer in every town hall in the country. There are the ones who, on receipt of a forwarded email from months ago that was not acted on for any reason (even customer error) would move hell and earth to get the request/notification dealt with as quickly as possible, even extending outside of their remit and working unpaid overtime to do so. Then there are the jobsworths like your case officer who get a kick out of wielding their little slice of power. Unfortunately the public they work to serve -- sorry, customers they work to charge -- are just not important. Something about LA employment seems to attract those people like flies. Don't despair completely though, the current climate of cuts is weeding out those and leaving the better officers behind to pick up the pieces - because they are the only ones capable enough to do so. [sorry.... my little rant is over with. Having to put up with these people every day wears you down after a while.]
As mentioned you may want to consider writing to the information compliance officer at the local authority. If you want to then make an FOI request instead asking what happened to the email sent to xxx on yyy by zzz and, if reasonable costs allow, when and by who it has since been accessed. They have a legal obligation to answer you. (Ensure you keep the part about 'if reasonable costs allow' else they could just deny the entire request on cost grounds if they don't want to provide it to keep face.)
The rules for serving documents via the postal system are clear - you only need proof that the documents were posted, plus six days for first class and (I think) 10 days for second class. You do not need proof that the documents were delivered. If that is good enough for a court to base a judgement on then it is good enough for a local authority planning department even though some may consider themselves above the law.
There is some new information in your most recent reply. Are you claiming to have already reapplied for the neighbour consultation and it had run it course with an actual consultation having taken place? i.e. your neighbours received notification via the local authority?
At the end of the day take the planners out of it completely. With any development there are only two parties who are actual stakeholders - you and your affected neighbours. You are clearly coming towards the end of your patience and you claim that your neighbours are fed up with it too. Your wellbeing, and that of your neighbours should be a greater concern than your planning situation so you need to set yourself a cut off. One week, one month, or whatever your limit is. Once you reach that if you are still no further towards resolving this then cut your losses and demolish for your own health. Seek legal advice regarding your architect's incredibly bad advice that you were able to start building with the aim of recovering your costs. Don't get your hopes up as you are partly responsible, but professional negligence is insurable so it is worth pursing. (Check any bank accounts, mortgages, credit cards and car insurance products you have for legal cover - many have it bundled and they may be able to assist you.)
[little side rant...]
There are two types of officer in every town hall in the country. There are the ones who, on receipt of a forwarded email from months ago that was not acted on for any reason (even customer error) would move hell and earth to get the request/notification dealt with as quickly as possible, even extending outside of their remit and working unpaid overtime to do so. Then there are the jobsworths like your case officer who get a kick out of wielding their little slice of power. Unfortunately the public they work to serve -- sorry, customers they work to charge -- are just not important. Something about LA employment seems to attract those people like flies. Don't despair completely though, the current climate of cuts is weeding out those and leaving the better officers behind to pick up the pieces - because they are the only ones capable enough to do so. [sorry.... my little rant is over with. Having to put up with these people every day wears you down after a while.]
As mentioned you may want to consider writing to the information compliance officer at the local authority. If you want to then make an FOI request instead asking what happened to the email sent to xxx on yyy by zzz and, if reasonable costs allow, when and by who it has since been accessed. They have a legal obligation to answer you. (Ensure you keep the part about 'if reasonable costs allow' else they could just deny the entire request on cost grounds if they don't want to provide it to keep face.)
The rules for serving documents via the postal system are clear - you only need proof that the documents were posted, plus six days for first class and (I think) 10 days for second class. You do not need proof that the documents were delivered. If that is good enough for a court to base a judgement on then it is good enough for a local authority planning department even though some may consider themselves above the law.
There is some new information in your most recent reply. Are you claiming to have already reapplied for the neighbour consultation and it had run it course with an actual consultation having taken place? i.e. your neighbours received notification via the local authority?
At the end of the day take the planners out of it completely. With any development there are only two parties who are actual stakeholders - you and your affected neighbours. You are clearly coming towards the end of your patience and you claim that your neighbours are fed up with it too. Your wellbeing, and that of your neighbours should be a greater concern than your planning situation so you need to set yourself a cut off. One week, one month, or whatever your limit is. Once you reach that if you are still no further towards resolving this then cut your losses and demolish for your own health. Seek legal advice regarding your architect's incredibly bad advice that you were able to start building with the aim of recovering your costs. Don't get your hopes up as you are partly responsible, but professional negligence is insurable so it is worth pursing. (Check any bank accounts, mortgages, credit cards and car insurance products you have for legal cover - many have it bundled and they may be able to assist you.)
Not in the least - it's quite easy to have a printout that purports to be a printout of a sent email. Plus, unlike the Royal Mail, "sent" does not legally mean you can consider it delivered.
The only "proof" would be to get the server logs showing that the email was delivered to the mail servers* used by the council for incoming email. How easy is to get the server logs ? Well that depends on how your mail is done.
Personally, i run my own mail server, so I can access the logs directly - this "might" be the possibility if your architect is part of a business. Since most people don't run their own mail servers, then you are at the mercy of the outfit you (or rather, your architect) use for your email. They may or may not be able to get this email for you - and if they can, there are probably time limits before the records deleted.
* To be technical, showing that the email was delivered to one of the servers listed with an MX record in the DNS.
IF you could show that the email was received by their mail server then you are home and dry. If it was received by their system but for whatever reason it didn't get to the right department (eg was deleted by a spam filter, very common) then that isn't your problem.
But that's a big IF.
But really, the professional who you paid money to do a job got it wrong - it's his problem to sort out, and should be his cost too.
I agree. A print of a sent email doesn't prove much.
There's a couple of things that don't add up about this. Why did your architect send it to an odd email address rather than the official channel? Architects are submitting planning apps all the time so he would surely know the difference. I also don't understand why he didn't check the progress of the application online. I check my applications almost daily after the first couple of weeks, so it wouldn't have been long before I realised something was wrong. Was he so disinterested that he couldn't be bothered to have a quick look - not even once?
There's a couple of things that don't add up about this. Why did your architect send it to an odd email address rather than the official channel? Architects are submitting planning apps all the time so he would surely know the difference. I also don't understand why he didn't check the progress of the application online. I check my applications almost daily after the first couple of weeks, so it wouldn't have been long before I realised something was wrong. Was he so disinterested that he couldn't be bothered to have a quick look - not even once?
Just a thought, is the architect a member of a professional body ? If so, then loo into the complaints procedure for that - for someone where professional registration is important, having the threat of being thrown out for incompetence is likely to result in some effort going into "fixing it".
DIYnot Local
Staff member
If you need to find a tradesperson to get your job done, please try our local search below, or if you are doing it yourself you can find suppliers local to you.
Select the supplier or trade you require, enter your location to begin your search.
Are you a trade or supplier? You can create your listing free at DIYnot Local
Sponsored Links
