This made me smile..

rds60h said:
"Whether the Irish Republican Army (IRA) are considered terrorists or freedom fighters is highly debated, as the two terms are not mutually exclusive and depend heavily on perspective."

It is not highly debated it is a FACT that the IRA are a Proscribed Terrorist Group !!
The UK Home Office maintains a list of Proscribed Organisations under the Terrorism Act 2000 which includes Both the Historic Provisional IRA (PIRA) and Modern Splinter Groups.
The Proscribed IRA Factions are :: Provisional IRA (PIRA) :: Proscribed in the UK under the Terrorism Act 2000. (While the PIRA Declared a Ceasefire and Decommissioned Weapons following the 1998 Good Friday Agreement, it Legally remains a Proscribed Organisation).......Continuity IRA (CIRA) :: A Dissident Republican Paramilitary Group that split from the PIRA, Designated as a Proscribed Terrorist Group...... New IRA / Real IRA (RIRA) :: Dissident Republican Groups formed after the PIRA Ceasefire , Designated as Proscribed Organisations in the UK, the Republic of Ireland and the Breakaway/Dissident Groups—such as the Real IRA (New IRA) and the Continuity IRA, are Explicitly Designated as Foreign Terrorist Organizations by the U.S.A
Sources :: The UK Home Office and the USA Department of State .

"The United Nations... has never formally classified the Irish Republican Army (IRA) as a terrorist group." No, but The UK, Republic of Ireland and the USA Governments have Proscribed them as Terrorists .
"The UN General Assembly has not passed an official, blanket resolution explicitly condemning Hamas by name."
The UN General Assembly (UNGA) Does Not have the Legal Authority to Formally "Proscribe" or Officially Designate Terrorist Groups.
However, Hamas are not on the UN Security Council's Consolidated Sanctions List. But given that the in 2024 the UN Office of Oversight Services were given the Names of 19 UNWRA workers who were Hamas Members and had been involved with the Massacre on 7th October 2023 they announced that the Evidence was Insufficient to confirm 10 of them were involved in the Massacre and with regards to the Remaining 9 cases, the Evidence Obtained by OIOS Indicated that the "UNRWA Staff Members" May Have Been Involved in the 7th October Massacre and Kidnapping. United Nations reaction to this Investigation was to sack 9 UNRWA Staff Members............... That says a lot about the Morals and Bias of the UN........
Anyhow, Hamas is Proscribed as Terrorists and are Heavily Sanctioned by Individual Countries and Regional Bodies across the World including the UK, All of the EU, USA, Canada, Egypt, Jordan. Even the Arab League have Formally Called for Hamas to Disarm.
Sources :: The United Nations, The United Nations Office of Oversight Services, The UK Home Office and The USA Department of State. After this you can check my Sources using the information given in the Posts.
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Cut and paste nonsense.
True definition of a terrorist is someone who uses violence to achieve their political aims in a democratic state.
A democratic state allows those with grievances to achieve the amelioration of grievances without recourse to violence.

Israel is not a democratic state as most people would understand the term.
The state was created by ethnically cleansing the existing non Jewish population in order to create a Jewish/Zionist majority.
The fig leaf of democratic legitimacy is maintained by denying the right of return to the displaced indigenous population and their children.
 
Vinty said:
Cut and paste nonsense.
True definition of a terrorist is someone who uses violence to achieve their political aims in a democratic state.
A democratic state allows those with grievances to achieve the amelioration of grievances without recourse to violence.

Israel is not a democratic state as most people would understand the term.
The state was created by ethnically cleansing the existing non Jewish population in order to create a Jewish/Zionist majority.
The fig leaf of democratic legitimacy is maintained by denying the right of return to the displaced indigenous population and their children.
Click to expand...
The IRA were either terrorists or freedom fighters, depending on your perspective.
Many in the USA saw them as freedom fighters,
It wasn't until 2021 (23 years after the GFA) that USA official called the IRA as terrorists.

Asserting a state as democratic also depends on your perspective.
USA is currently undergoing some gerrymandering, but it's still called a democracy.
 
King Billy said:
The IRA were either terrorists or freedom fighters, depending on your peperspective.
Click to expand...
A freedom fighter needs a mandate from the community they claim to be fighting for.
The IRA never had majority support for their campaign of violence from the Nationalist community.
Their political wing Sinn Fein, only became the largest Nationalist party after the IRA ended its campaign of terrorism.
If there is no agreed definition of a terrorist v freedom fighter, then anyone could call themselves Freedom Fighters including Tommy Robbingstein, or the local drug dealer.
 
rds60h said:
Strange, most Lefties claim it is the other way around and that Jews (although they think by calling them Zionists that clears them of being Racist.
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So you believe when you call someone a Zionist , you are really referring to Jews.
Your conflation of Jews with Zionism could be considered anti semitic by some but not me.
I agree that it is ironic that the traditional home for real Jew hatred was the far right but with the rise of Islamophobia the far right have reinvented themselves as Israel lovers in the extreme, very strange.
 
Vinty said:
So you believe when you call someone a Zionist , you are really referring to Jews.
Your conflation of Jews with Zionism could be considered anti semitic by some but not me.
I agree that it is ironic that the traditional home for real Jew hatred was the far right but with the rise of Islamophobia the far right have reinvented themselves as Israel lovers in the extreme, very strange.
Click to expand...

All Jews are Zionists.

Zion·ist
[ˈzʌɪənɪst]
noun
adjective
Zionist (noun)
Zionists (plural noun)
  1. a supporter of Zionism; a person who believes in the development and protection of a Jewish nation in what is now Israel:
    "the artist's parents were committed Zionists"
 
fillyboy said:
Genuine evidence was presented, because the evidence didn't back up your false assertions you claim that the Quran my evidence came from was some sort of fake alternative Quran.

Remember.

It is written.
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Do you take the bible as literally as you do the Koran.
Should homosexuels be killed, apparently they should according to the Jewish old testament.
 
Vinty said:
Do you take the bible as literally as you do the Koran.
Should homosexuels be killed, apparently they should according to the Jewish old testament.
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No, I think it's all a load of *******x, but if a clown on here makes up a false claim about the contents of these works of fiction, I'll correct them.

Nothing to do with believing or not.
 
Vinty said:
If you believe the Koran is a work of fiction.
Why do you quote it as evidence of Muslim depravity.
Click to expand...

I didn't, I quoted it as evidence that Himmys statement that there were no references in the qoran with regard to killing Jews was a falsehood and a lie.

Read the thread.
 
fillyboy said:
I didn't, I quoted it as evidence that Himmys statement that there were no references in the qoran with regard to killing Jews was a falsehood and a lie.

Read the thread.
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I did read the thread.
OK maybe there are references to killing Jews in qoran but didn't you say that the bible and the qoran are works of fiction.
Is it just the bible you believe is a work of fiction or both the bible and qoran are works of fiction.
 
fillyboy said:
Himmy says there are not.

We got there in the end, good man.
Click to expand...
OK there are references in the qoran to killing Jews but there are plenty of references in the Jewish old testament to killing non Jews but should they be taken literally.
Examples of Jewish attitudes to women and non Jews in the old testament.

Ai. generated..

The Old Testament contains many harsh stories, including acts of extreme violence, slavery, and severe punishments. While some passages are read as historical records of brutal ancient times, others describe actions carried out or demanded by leaders and deities. [1, 2, 3, 4]

1. Extreme Violence and War
  • Genocide and Slaughter: The Israelites were commanded to completely wipe out neighboring nations, including women, children, and infants (e.g., Deuteronomy 20:16-17).
  • Slaughtering the Innocent: According to Isaiah 13:9-16, prophecies include infants being smashed to pieces before their parents' eyes.

2. Harsh Treatment of Women
  • Sex Slavery: After wiping out cities, armies were sometimes told to kill the older women and male children, but keep the virgin girls for themselves (Numbers 31:17-18).
  • The Concubine of Gibeah: In a grim tale, a Levite man threw his concubine out to an angry mob to save himself. She was raped all night and left dead on the doorstep (Judges 19).

3. Severe Punishments for Minor Offenses
  • Death Penalty for Rules: People could be put to death for working on the Sabbath (such as picking up sticks) or for cursing their parents (Exodus 31:14). [1]
  • Mauled by Bears: When a group of youths teased the prophet Elisha for being bald, he cursed them, and two bears came out of the woods and mauled 42 of the boys (2 Kings 2:23-24).

4. Slavery and Captivity
  • Laws on Slavery: The text features rules on how to treat slaves, noting that a master who beats a slave with a rod will not be punished as long as the slave survives a couple of days, because "the slave is their property" (Exodus 21:20-21). [1]
 
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