Tiles not sticking to walls

[IAMIAIN]

Hi,
I have in the last few days completely gutted my bathroom and had a tradesman friend (not a cowboy but a competant builder/plumber) refit and tile. As I had a budget I asked him just to slap a bit of undercoat plaster on the walls that were to be tiled.
My problem is this:- after 3 days it would appear that the tiles are not sticking to the walls. I klnow this as I wanted to change on that I had put up on Saturday and it came off far too easily and left no adhesive on the wall. The adhesive on the tile had gone very powdery/crumbly and I am now concerned that the whole b***ard lot will have to come off costing me hunders!!
The walls were pretty crap to begin with and to get the tiles level the adhesive was up to 7-8mm thick in some places (this obviously prevented being able to ''float'' the tiles onto the wall).
Why is this happening?? Crap adhesive (B & Q....groan) crap walls?
AShould I leave them to go off for longer, then grout and hope for the best??
Please help as I now have a massive stress headache and am ready to kill.
Cheers

 

[Richard C]

Plaster must be allowed to dry out before tiling; skim takes 10 -14 days base & skim up to 4 weeks; if it’s damp the tiles won’t stick. What undercoat plaster did you use? Most are not suitable for tiling onto. DIY shed adhesive is generally crap, what was it? Even though your tiling over, the walls need to be as flat as possible to look any good; building out with 8mm of tub mix is not a particularly good idea; I fear you need to take the lot off, prep the walls properly & use decent adhesive & grout.

 

[IAMIAIN]

Plaster must be allowed to dry out before tiling; skim takes 10 -14 days base & skim up to 4 weeks; if it’s damp the tiles won’t stick. What undercoat plaster did you use? Most are not suitable for tiling onto. DIY shed adhesive is generally crap, what was it? Even though your tiling over, the walls need to be as flat as possible to look any good; building out with 8mm of tub mix is not a particularly good idea; I fear you need to take the lot off, prep the walls properly & use decent adhesive & grout.

Adhesive was just a B & Q waterproff premade....**** I know but to be honest there wasn't a lot of choice. In regards from starting from scratch that will be a ball ache as suite is now in (mate wanted to do all walls but I have time constaints).
Think I will see how well the tiles are stuck come the weekend and then make a decision....if they still come off too easily then they will go.
Recommend a decent (easily available) adhesive.
I f***ing hate tiling....just thought you might like to know

 

[Richard C]

You usually get what you pay for with this stuff &, as I said, DIY shed stuff is generally crap. I use BAL but others you could consider are Mapei, Weber, Granfix to name but 3.

Tiling does require skill but it’s not rocket science; the key to doing it successfully is to prepare the surface properly (it doesn’t have to be perfect but you can’t really stick tiles over an uneven surface), be careful what materials you use on the base & prepare them as required (plaster, paint, primer etc.), make sure the walls are thoroughly dry & use the correct materials for the conditions & the type of tiles you have.

 

[IAMIAIN]

You usually get what you pay for with this stuff &, as I said, DIY shed stuff is generally crap. I use BAL but others you could consider are Mapei, Weber, Granfix to name but 3.

Tiling does require skill but it’s not rocket science; the key to doing it successfully is to prepare the surface properly (it doesn’t have to be perfect but you can’t really stick tiles over an uneven surface), be careful what materials you use on the base & prepare them as required (plaster, paint, primer etc.), make sure the walls are thoroughly dry & use the correct materials for the conditions & the type of tiles you have.

Cheers
Lets say that I don't take them down (I know this is ideal but I have one bathroom and a pregnant missus who may just kill me if I do) should I let the adhesive completely dry out, which is taking a while, before I grout?

 

[Richard C]

Normally with tub mix you can grout after 24 hours but if you grout it before the adhesive is set, it could take months or never set properly at all. I would try leaving it for 5 days & see what happens.

I also assume you are aware that even under ideal conditions, you shouldn’t use a shower or get the tiles behind a bath wet for 2 weeks after grouting! Steam won’t help matters either!

 

[IAMIAIN]

Normally with tub mix you can grout after 24 hours but if you grout it before the adhesive is set, it could take months or never set properly at all. I would try leaving it for 5 days & see what happens.

I also assume you are aware that even under ideal conditions, you shouldn’t use a shower or get the tiles behind a bath wet for 2 weeks after grouting! Steam won’t help matters either!

Gracias
The tiles have been up a few days but still not 100% set, I will leave until the weekend and make a decision then but like you said definitely don't want to seal in any moisture.
Shame about all this becasuse every other aspect of the room is spot on

 

[IAMIAIN]

What is best BAL adhesive to use in my case?
Cheers again

 

[Richard C]

What is best BAL adhesive to use in my case?
Cheers again

Assume you'r talking about what to use when re-doing them? What size/type/weight tiles are you using? Youve already said the walls are in a bit of a state but I'll need to know what's on them?

 

[IAMIAIN]

What is best BAL adhesive to use in my case?
Cheers again

Assume you'r talking about what to use when re-doing them? What size/type/weight tiles are you using? Youve already said the walls are in a bit of a state but I'll need to know what's on them?

Rich,
Not talking about redoing at the mo, although it might happen, as everything...bath etc in the room is in. The cost of finishing the tiling is small compared to a re-do so I will at least finish the job (3-4 hours max) and assess then. I really can't afford to take suite and shower (not being used) out unless I know it has to be done. So that is where we are now.
Tiles are 250 x 200 x 6mm B & Q....got some BAL grip last night but haven't yet tried it. The ''built up'' tiles are more toward the bottom so what I might do is take off the highest row and redo those then complete job.
Appreciate the advice and time taken so far, thanks

 

[Richard C]

So it’s just to finish what you’ve started then; Bal Grip would normally be OK for those tiles but you must remember the maximum recomended bed thickness is 3mm! If you’ve got large chunks missing from the wall or its uneven then don’t attempt to use tub mix to fill it out; you can fill out to a certain degree when using a cement powder adhesive but 8mm is really asking too much. The surface doesn’t have to be perfect but it’s important to get it as flat as possible before you start or this will be reflected in the finished tile surface.

You did not answer my question about what plaster was used? Have the whole walls been base coated? Gypsum base plasters do not hold tiles very at all well. Priming the walls with BAL Bond or BAL APD should help with adhesion but your main problem is that build out of adhesive.

 

[ziggy 55]

ok this problem pops up all over the internet, i renovate really old buildings for a living for the passed 35 years. a tile wont stick even if the wall is a little damp,so what we do is use dry wall adhesive to stick the tile then after 24 hours drying time use white grout to finish . works every time

 

[ree]

ziggy 55,

You've been doing it wrong for 35 years then.

I hope that you dont pop up all over the internet?

Dry wall adhesive perishes in contact with damp - even "remedial" drywall adhesive only has a limited "dry" life.

Never use any tile adhesive but what is recommended as tile adhesive. Best adhesive is cementitious powdered adhesive - Thin set.

The post you are responding to is 5 yrs old.

 

[ziggy 55]

thank you for your unprovoked attack over a simple tip , and so what its a 5 year old post YOU read it . am sorry it offended you ,tite bond dry wall adhesive is the make we use

 

[ree]

Its not "unprovoked" - you wrote without fully explaining yourself, and i responded.

Titebond Drywall Adhesive cartridges will indeed give a secure fix for tile - but given a damp background both tile and adhesive will eventually fail by pulling away from the background esp. damp plaster. The damp issue must be resolved before any tiling.

FWIW: Using cartridges is a very expensive and time consuming way to go.

Titebond drywall adhesive dries in various colors so i'm unclear as to why white grout should be used. Plus how does "white grout" help out with a damp background. Why white?

No, i did not read the thread i read the date.

However, i apologise for jumping the gun and making the assumption that you were referring to powdered "conventional" dry wall adhesive.