TN-C-S Distrubution Fault Symptoms?

How sad.



Then you need a psychiatrist, not an electrician.



The wiring?

Yeah how sad for you shed. Its i should say a temporary solution, but a working one.

You need a psychiatrist, your not helping. I am going to solve this real issue. Psychiatrists can say mind over physical, but i bet they don't call their psychiatrist friends & colleagues, when they have electrical problems in there home, because telling your self your lights are really working . when they clearly are not, who is unbalanced then. Psychiatrists can stick to OCD side of the street, when it comes to science ill make careful judgement calls based on facts.

The new wiring before its electrified needs to be certified as safe and within regulations, when someone adds more sockets or makes changes to the ring, it needs re earth testing, and in extreme re checking..

Your a troll Shed... Is this the best you can do with your time... Do you have any training in electrical or electronics, because you don't show it. This is grown up troubleshooting, go play Call of Duty or something, don't bore your self by posting here.
 
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The effect of domestic magnetic fields on the human body is in doubt.

http://www.who.int/peh-emf/publications/facts/fs322/en/


When working in the radio communications industry in the 1980's I was aware of several attempts to prove that magnetic fields had a detrimental effect on health. None of the "proof" could be validated. The effect of radio frequency energy on flesh was a known hazard when standing close to a powerful transmitter. But magnetic fields of a few milli Tesla were never proven to be harmful. ( But that could be wrong )

In all respect to those who doubt EMF, science has shown that not all dangerous agents or exposures to the body kill or irritate instantley. Cancers and tumours from many different hazards don't kill instantley, and can take decades to become problematic. Effects from EMF are not all about the heating effect, they have been proven to effect the human body in relation to the small workings of the human bodies multiple subsystems, and so effect on sleep or general health can become a gradual decay not instant. people who have physical health conditions, who are weakened for one reason or another, will be at greater risk because of their weakened health.

The human body is a tough design, so it does not die from little issues, but over long period of time ill health from an unhealthy life will develop, and quicker than those with a more healthy life. Cigarettes are a classic example where by the medical community had strong fact that it was bad on a long term in 1950s, with people saying it was not proven, not dangerous, and then now where are we, its banned from public buildings, from cars with children.

Electricity on our mains is not natural, and its not our friend. It needs respecting, like the sea.


Assume a twin cable with a live wire and a neutral wire. What ever load is being supplied by this cable the current in the Live will be the same as in the Neutral but in the opposite direction. ( there may be an insignificant difference when the wires are those in a cable that is part of a ring main ) Puttting the sensor right next to one wire would give the magnetic field from that wire. The adjacent wire will have a similar magnetic field but in the opposite polarity. The two will strat to cancel each other out when the sensor is moved a few centimetres from the cable.

This is the angle i am working from as well. There will be a reason why in one side of the house there is higher readings, and based on the inspection of the wiring, i would say we have a growing selection of electrical mistakes.

Heating pipes de factoring the twin and earth in the celling above the living room, multiple spurs off a single socket, wiring exposed, previous water leak in the kitchen could have added to the issue, old sockets and old wiring with lose connections being a likely issue.

The ring is no longer as it was original installed in the early 70s, the furthest socket has much less resistance on one side of the loop than the other, and i think now based on what ive discovered today, the ring could have been functioning poorly at the beginning of the loop, so current likely could have been flowing double the length than it was intended to do.

Thats going to create a one way current flow around the ring, and as you have said, the EMF will not be resisted by the opposite field of the current on the opposite wire.

Thank you for your help Bernard

Electrics Ranger
 
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. and the probability of that occurring is? :)
Small but there have in the past few years been several instances of bond cables melting.
For a start, "several in the past few years" is hardly a lot - as I recently wrote, I think that 3-4 people are killed (and a lot more injured) each year in the UK by being struck by lightning.

More to the point, of these "several in the past few years" cases of melting bonding conductors, how many do you think (or know) were due to a simultaneous phase-neutral short and a severed neutral (severed on the 'right side' of the short) ??

Kind Regards, John
 
I do not keep records of conversaions in which I have learnt of incidents so I cannot give specifically numerated answers. "power surges" have been reported after metal thefts have open circuited the Neutral. At these incidents some properties have had voltages far higher than 230 + 10% which have damaged equipment but also some have had fires involving ONLY the bond wire.

This meter cabinet fire was caused by the high currents flowing through the bond to the MET. All the damage is above the MET and the although the meter appears to be burnt it is only a coating of soot from the seat of the fire below. Several other meter boxes suffered similar damage. I recall that the water mains in the area were metallic.

bond burnt.jpg


This picture can be found in this article http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ters-called-71-homes-massive-power-surge.html
 
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Yeah how sad for you shed. Its i should say a temporary solution, but a working one.

You need a psychiatrist, your not helping. I am going to solve this real issue. Psychiatrists can say mind over physical, but i bet they don't call their psychiatrist friends & colleagues, when they have electrical problems in there home, because telling your self your lights are really working . when they clearly are not, who is unbalanced then. Psychiatrists can stick to OCD side of the street, when it comes to science ill make careful judgement calls based on facts.

The new wiring before its electrified needs to be certified as safe and within regulations, when someone adds more sockets or makes changes to the ring, it needs re earth testing, and in extreme re checking..

Your a troll Shed... Is this the best you can do with your time... Do you have any training in electrical or electronics, because you don't show it. This is grown up troubleshooting, go play Call of Duty or something, don't bore your self by posting here.
I tell you what.

Why don't you go away and find real, verified, proper scientific evidence the the electromagnetic fields you have been talking about have real, verified physical effects.

Until then, either stay away, or accept the fact that you will be viewed as a nutcase, who believes in things which do not exist.
 
Shed, that is a good reply, i respect and i understand your points. However I argue you in my defence, you can call me or suspect me as being a nutcase "your words", because I am proceeding to investigate something. If anything i am in process of finding real evidence, and was checking with other people about their experiences in relation electrical wiring faults. Its a fact that there is an issue with the house, its been narrowed down to the downstairs ring main, its a fact that the issue completely disappears when the ring main is isolated. I am curios why, and ive been gathering results & information so i can make educated conclusion.

ElectricsRanger
 
I am proceeding to investigate something. If anything i am in process of finding real evidence, and was checking with other people about their experiences in relation electrical wiring faults.
And do you honestly think that you have a large enough sample of other people to check with, that those people are randomly selected, not self-selected, and that your methods are suitably rigorous? What will make your work both different and more valid than that of the tens of thousands of people who have gone before you?

In the area of biological effects and medical applications of non-ionizing radiation approximately 25,000 articles have been published over the past 30 years. Despite the feeling of some people that more research needs to be done, scientific knowledge in this area is now more extensive than for most chemicals. Based on a recent in-depth review of the scientific literature, the WHO concluded that current evidence does not confirm the existence of any health consequences from exposure to low level electromagnetic fields.


Its a fact that there is an issue with the house, its been narrowed down to the downstairs ring main, its a fact that the issue completely disappears when the ring main is isolated.
The only facts there are that you, and people you know, believe those things.

Some members of the public have attributed a diffuse collection of symptoms to low levels of exposure to electromagnetic fields at home. Reported symptoms include headaches, anxiety, suicide and depression, nausea, fatigue and loss of libido. To date, scientific evidence does not support a link between these symptoms and exposure to electromagnetic fields.


I am curios why, and ive been gathering results & information so i can make educated conclusion.
There is little scientific evidence to support the idea of electromagnetic hypersensitivity. Recent Scandinavian studies found that individuals do not show consistent reactions under properly controlled conditions of electromagnetic field exposure. Nor is there any accepted biological mechanism to explain hypersensitivity ...
 
Shed, I think you taking this discussion a little to serious, and making making some big assumptions about why im interested, who i am, my level reasoning, what my objectives are on the world stage. Which is not what we are talking about here... but you are, and now we are?

Sheds Quote > "Some members of the public have attributed a diffuse collection of symptoms to low levels of exposure to electromagnetic fields at home. Reported symptoms include headaches, anxiety, suicide and depression, nausea, fatigue and loss of libido. To date, scientific evidence does not support a link between these symptoms and exposure to electromagnetic fields."

There is growing scientific evidence, for scientists who are looking in to the effects of electromagnetic fields. Oh whats this on the same page are information.

Quote > It is not disputed that electromagnetic fields above certain levels can trigger biological effects. Experiments with healthy volunteers indicate that short-term exposure at the levels present in the environment or in the home do not cause any apparent detrimental effects. Exposures to higher levels that might be harmful are restricted by national and international guidelines. The current debate is centred on whether long-term low level exposure can evoke biological responses and influence people's well being."

Oh they cause biological effects Shed, what is that? Is that like the human body reacting in some way, biological effect, like a headake, or miscarrage, stress hormone release, raised blood pressure, poor sleep, well hmmm. You know people in the uk have some of the highest levels of stress in the world, i wonder why, they say its increased in the last 5 years, wonder if other environmental changes have increased in 5 years, could it the increase of portable electronic devices in the home, electrical powerline adapters, wireless routers, bluetooth speakers, wireless phones, 3G, 4G all-day all-night... owww .

What else do it say, healthy volunteers, so that implies they not sick, or not vunerable. Oh what else, short-term... Couple hours maybe, i would hope at least a night. Maybe the healthy volunteers would need a couple of months of decreased rest, before gradual health decline or notice problems for them. That s a long term test and review.

Was it a lab or a house... If it was a house, was it a normal house, had been electrically certified to be sure its electrical installation was as would be expected. Wait... was it a house that had a history, and had electrical faults, history of ill health? Maybe the test would vary house to house, because it depends on the levels are in the house.

They say exposure to high levels might harmful, but the levels are restricted by national and international guidelines, oh right. Well how do they know if a house or device is within those guidelines, especially if no one checks, but that would mean someone nutty needs to check readings with a meter, values with a meter. Don't people do that for a living, check values, make sure people producing products that meet the set british standards, checking the chinese don't make plastic products that fail to not burst in to flames. Standards... you know, like making sure the electrical wiring is wired within the regulation standards, oh dam, i guess we british don't have standards anymore, because that would be stupid wouldnt it? Its all about cheap products.

With China manufacturing all our goods, cables, electronic and electrical devices, CE certification being known to printed on products when no certification has been given "fake iphone chargers", we just live in a world that don't need precautions. We would be nutty, to not notice that fake goods that look like the real ones are flooding the world market. Wait... they could be in our homes already, like the Fake Britain house on the BBC fake britain tv show. Oh wait we are being nutty? but its been proven.... so do we need to check, take responsibility for own well being?



Shed Quote > "The only facts there are that you, and people you know, believe those things."

Oh, well, if the someone believes their house was on fire, based on your theory, they should just wait until the fire was raging, maybe burning their feet, ignore the early signs, wait for the flames. That must be why they say, call the fire brigade if you smell smoke.

Or wait!, what about if a person smells GAS, they should also wait, because... they are imagining the gas smell. That must be just the people imagining a smell, i suppose the GAS services offering to visit and inspect only to ease fears, like looking under the bed for a child. Its not because its explosive, and can blow up streets, the house. A serious health implication.

Oh... Wait another one.... Carbon Monoxide, thats invisible, and can not be smelt or tasted, but its kills people.... its a by product of burning fuels, you know gas and coal. If a person does not have ideal ventilation, poor fire vent or chimney, and a faulty unit, they can die. I suppose the strict enforcement by the government regulations, were for nutty people. If you use a carbon monoxide meter, you can measure the amounts in the air, oh, but if someone don't feel well, better ignore it, says shed.... People get headaches and other sick symptoms. before they experience levels that kill them in their sleep, but thats nutty people right shed? you know the ones that produce physical symptoms with their minds.

In fact does the government not advice people have a carbon monoxide meter in the home, possibly two, ah but they are for nutty people take precautions, because of the invisible killer, which we can not see, smell or taste. When british people started burning coal centuries ago, the houses had smaller chimneys, and because the coal smoke was less, but the carbon dioxide was much higher in amount. No end of people fell victim, especially children and babies. I even sore a program where they measured the levels with a professional meter, in an original house from the time at a historical site, it showed shocking levels.


Final note... Shed, i think you hear just spread disinformation... Hahaha another conspiracy theory moment shed will probley say... Its documented that people work on the internet all day, to curve public opinion and general information, so that it advances certain interests. The chinese government uses in to control their internet, and big business uses it to control their image, product advertisement within the ideas of their potential customers.

Shed you have way to much personal interest in fighting this view of electromagnetic fields topic, anyone would think you a have a personal motive. Well im sure you will reply with something, or a new person come in to take your place, or multiple people. Thats right, this topic will keep on going, and it wont matter what is said, it will be disputed, because the view your following is that, its crazy, its impossible, its not general consensus, there needs to be a study done "that will take years, enough time for profits to be made, and changes to be implemented, world is a big machine, takes time for change to implement".


So i suppose your view on carbon monoxide is bit like the electromagnetic fields and electromagnetic interference, they are imaginary right? because Shed can not see them? What about air pollution, there are small particles that are breathed deep in to the lungs, ah there invisible too?

Finally the main point now... Shed if you don't think they exist, and your happy to continue make decisions for your self that only affect your self, thats fine. Same for anyone else. Ride the theory as far as you can can guys, don't moan about the negatives that will be bumps in the road, because they will be if your taking a route that's not good. You testing of your own theories will be the proof in the end, you will know the truth deep down, because the facts will speak for them selves. Unless you don't understand them... or you decide to ignore them, and take a denial approach.

ElectricsRanger

So TN-C-S are they good?
 
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Oh dear! The downside of the internet seems to be a group of people using pseudo-science to frighten, and usually to take money from, gullible individuals. I was just looking at 'zappers' which were guaranteed to cure HIV positives (and cancer etc). And something called 'Rife' machines which diagnosed illnesses which could then be cured by these zappers.

Not to mention the expensive improvements one can make to one's hi-fi for sufficient outlay.

Whilst I like to keep an open mind, it seems clear that much of this disinformation is driven by thieves.

I just feel sad that anyone should be taken in and carried along by these fraudsters.
 
Oh dear! People need to educate them selves, and then take responsibility for their own decisions.

People believe what they see, and resist what they don't know. History has many people with good intentions, who were discredited because their views didn't fit the current standard of the time, but later are shown to have had a valid theory, based on trial and error, and later proven by technology and science.

Example Ignaz Philipp Semmelweis


Ignaz Philipp Semmelweis[Note 1] (born Semmelweis Ignác Fülöp; 1 July 1818 – 13 August 1865) was a Hungarian physician of German extraction[2][3] now known as an early pioneer of antiseptic procedures. Described as the "savior of mothers", Semmelweis discovered that the incidence of puerperal fever (also known as "childbed fever") could be drastically cut by the use of hand disinfection in obstetrical clinics. Puerperal fever was common in mid-19th-century hospitals and often fatal, with mortality at 10%–35%. Semmelweis proposed the practice of washing hands with chlorinated lime solutions in 1847 while working in Vienna General Hospital's First Obstetrical Clinic, where doctors' wards had three times the mortality of midwives' wards.[4] He published a book of his findings in Etiology, Concept and Prophylaxis of Childbed Fever.

Despite various publications of results where hand washing reduced mortality to below 1%, Semmelweis's observations conflicted with the established scientific and medical opinions of the time and his ideas were rejected by the medical community. Some doctors were offended at the suggestion that they should wash their hands and Semmelweis could offer no acceptable scientific explanation for his findings. Semmelweis's practice earned widespread acceptance only years after his death, when Louis Pasteur confirmed the germ theory and Joseph Lister, acting on the French microbiologist's research, practiced and operated, using hygienic methods, with great success. In 1865, Semmelweis was committed to an asylum, where he died at age 47 of pyaemia, after being beaten by the guards, only 14 days after he was committed.
 
The difference is that Lister could explain the reasons why his aseptic procedures were successful, whereas Semmelweis couldn't.
 
wonder if other environmental changes have increased in 5 years, could it the increase of portable electronic devices in the home, electrical powerline adapters, wireless routers, bluetooth speakers, wireless phones, 3G, 4G all-day all-night... owww .

Al those are radio frequency devices, it is accepted that radio frequency energy can and does affect human tissues.

In fact does the government not advice people have a carbon dioxide meter in the home
You mean carbon MONoxide. This gas fixes permanently to the haemoglobin molocules in the red blood cells and cannot be removed thus rendering the cells unable to transport oxygen. Hence the person dies.

Carbon DIoxide is necessary for normal breathing. Without it the balance of gases in the lungs is disrupted and the amount of oxygen in the blood is reduced. People who are hyperventilating are treated by being made to breathe in and out of a paper bag to reduce the amont of oxygen and INCREASE the amount of carbon dioxide they are breathing in.
 
The difference is that Lister could explain the reasons why his aseptic procedures were successful, whereas Semmelweis couldn't.
True as that is. one needs to remember that, certainly in the past, and to some extent even now, medical treatments and practices have been very commonly based on the empirical observation 'that they work', with little or no understanding of how/why they work.

Kind Regards, John
 
I'm not sure, but there could have been any number of people who believed that handwashing scared away the evil spirits that caused the high mortalities. They wouldn't have been proved correct by Lister's work based on Pasteur's research.
 

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