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Torey conference outcomes

Ivor Windybottom said:
Socialism keeps people poor
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oh really?

so how come countries which mostly have right wing free market unfettered capitalism like UK and America have substantially higher levels of wealth inequality, poor standards of living for ordinary citizens than those countries with more progressive left wing policies such as Sweden, Denmark, Norway, France, Slovenia, New Zealand



by the way there are no countries with socialism, what you actually mean is capitalist countries with decent public services and a taxation systems that ensures the lowest paid can afford to live
 
Notch7 said:
it isnt

hardly

its about 0.4% greater than Nov 2023
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Employment totals have reduced every single month since last year's budget, presumably as a result of the massive NI tax rises on lower paid staff. People are being sacked due to socialism, it's definitely not improving their lives.
 
Notch7 said:
oh really?

so how come countries which mostly have right wing free market unfettered capitalism like UK and America have substantially higher levels of wealth inequality, poor standards of living for ordinary citizens than those countries with more progressive left wing policies such as Sweden, Denmark, Norway, France, Slovenia, New Zealand
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Be careful with "inequality" figures and "relative poverty", they're lefty propaganda.

If I won the lottery tomorrow, I'd be the richest on my street. But inequality on my street would have increased massively, all my neighbours would be in relative poverty but they wouldn't be a penny poorer.

Successful economies can be unequal, because successful people are thriving there.
 
Ivor Windybottom said:
Employment totals have reduced every single month since last year's budget, presumably as a result of the massive NI tax rises on lower paid staff
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Labour had to get the money from somewhere

would you have preferred increases in income tax, VAT and employees NI?

maybe Jeremy Hunt should not have cut employees NI which was totally unfunded and he only did it to buy votes.


Ivor Windybottom said:
People are being sacked due to socialism
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how is that socialism?
 
Ivor Windybottom said:
Be careful with "inequality" figures and "relative poverty", they're lefty propaganda.
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the FT says wealth inequality is a serious problem

I guess you consider the Financial Times to be "lefty propaganda" :)

Britain and the US are poor societies with some very rich people​

Britain is a different story. While the top earners rank fifth, the average household ranks 12th and the poorest 5 per cent rank 15th. Far from simply losing touch with their western European peers, last year the lowest-earning bracket of British households had a standard of living that was 20 per cent weaker than their counterparts in Slovenia.


 
Ivor Windybottom said:
...
We used to import the people we needed. We had factories, not enough manual workers so we incentivised people to move here to do that work. Great, we ended up with enriched communities of different cultures, people got to know each other while working together, bosses made profits, the government got tax from them. All was well....
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We/you don't import people. You can invite them, you can incentivise those invitees, but you can't import people.
You can import slaves. They were treated as goods and chattels.

Ivor Windybottom said:
This isn't how things now are. We already have millions of unskilled people being paid to do nothing all day. But we continue importing unskilled people with no value to us.
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You/ we still can't import people. :rolleyes:

The millions of unemployed people has nothing to do with 'imported people' (sic). :rolleyes:

People may be of no value to you, you've made that abundantly clear, but everyone is of value to someone.
 
Knave of Hearts said:
We/you don't import people. You can invite them, you can incentivise those invitees, but you can't import people.
You can import slaves. They were treated as goods and chattels.


You/ we still can't import people. :rolleyes:

The millions of unemployed people has nothing to do with 'imported people' (sic). :rolleyes:

People may be of no value to you, you've made that abundantly clear, but everyone is of value to someone.
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Yawn. Patronising right-on lecturing.

In economic terms, workers are a commodity. Not the people, but their labour. We used to allow immigration when we needed them. Now we have no need, and most are an economic burden. My use of the term "importing people" is a reflection of those in charge, it's done by them for their needs, not for the good of mankind.

The previous government was importing people to keep wages down. The current mob are importing future voters and to satisfy their virtue-signalling. Different reasons, the same outcome. Immigration largely benefits rich employers and harms working class people, mostly by suppressing wages and raising rents. Plus the obvious massive social issues of overcrowding and overloaded public services.

Nobody ever voted for this, in fact every winning party has promised to reduce it for the last 15 years, and has probably won on the strength of this promise. All lies.
 
carmanmemoranda said:
But you haven't nailed your political colours to the mast?

Ok

But I'm thinking it's Reform for you
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Well spotted!

But I won't be joining the party, and would drop any support like a stone if they turn out to be a bunch of self-serving liars like the red and blue mobs.

They seem to be doing OK-ish so far in local government, allowing for the fact that most are new to it. Despite the BBC and Guardian furiously nit-picking at any trivial issues they can find.

They're in power here. So far the world hasn't exploded and some of the many local pot-holes have been patched.

Whatever people think, it's very likely they'll be the next UK government. Embrace and accept it, the old system is dead.
 
How can we possibly be in "growth" when the national debt is nearly £3trillions and is ever-increasing?
 
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