TV/Satellite distribution - number of coax per room?

[mads64738]

Hello,

I am in the process of getting my house rewired. I've asked the electrician to make provisions to lay an amount of coax (WF100) for a planned distributed tv/radio/satellite feed across the property.

My intentions:

a) In 3 rooms, to be able to have an independent Sky+/Dual Satellite feed and provide an "RF2" type feed to other rooms
b) In 1-2 rooms, to be able to have an independent Sky+/Dual Satellite feed
c) In 3 rooms, to be able to have single combined signal (tv/radio/satellite) feed

At the moment, I'm not "joining it together", all cables are to be directed to a central location. I realise that there are various approaches, some of which may involve me having to upgrade my dish (i.e. quattro lnb and multiswitches). I'm hoping that I've allowed for sufficient cables!

From various postings here and other AV forums, I believe:

* I can use a combiner to bring tv, radio, and "Sat1" onto one cable - then use a triplexer plate to split the signal
* I will need a separate cable for "Sat2"
* I will need a separate cable for "RF2"

So, this leads me to think:

* 3x WF100 for a)
* 2x WF100 for b)
* 1x WF100 for c)

For the sources, I'm also planning for:

* 4x WF100 for Satellite
* 1x WF100 for TV
* 1x WF100 for Radio

Does the amount of cable seem correct? Is there a particular area where I should allow for more or less cable?

Any assistance is greatly appreciated - thanks in advance!

 

[ChrisFrost]

Your descriptions of "independent Sky+/Dual Satellite feed" could be interpreted a few ways. Is it correct to presume you don't want to pay Sky for 4-5 satellite subscriptions to cover the 3 +1-2 rooms?

In plain English, you want the option to put a Sky dual tuner box in any of 4-5 rooms. And you want the rest of the house wired for TV, an RF2 satellite box signal, and FM/DAB radio. Is that about it?

If so, I would forget about a multiswitch and go instead with an octo lnb, then wire 2 feeds to each of the four rooms in your plan.

Next, you want RF return feeds (1xWF100 each) from each of those TV points back to the hub point. That takes care of RF2 from where ever there's a Sky/Sky+/Sky+HD box. How you deal with the return signals depends on how many Sky box FR2 signals you want to pump round the house.

Now we'll deal with the aerial distribution system.

You need an 8-way Sky compatible loft box. This takes the aerial feeds from your TV aerial, FM aerial and DAB aerial and combines it with the RF2 feed from one Sky box. The whole signal goes out via a single cable to any room with a TV point and triax plate. Labgear makes a nice unit - the HDU681

By not putting the Satellite dish feed in to the loftbox you neatly sidestep any issues with power for the Sky eyes.

Finally, integrating the RF2 feed/feeds depends on how many boxes you want to be able to pump around your house. This is handled at the hub end so it doesn't need any extra cabling to or from the rooms.

Your cabling to each room is:
1xWF100 that need TV/FM/DAB. TV is Freeview + RF2 from Sky

For those rooms that are wired for a satellite box you want an extra 3xWF100. That breaks down as 2 x WF100 from the LNB + 1xWF100 as the RF2 return feed to the hub.

Since you are burying cables in the walls it is sensible to have a spare from the hub point to each room as a backup.

While you're at it it wouldn't hurt to throw in some network cable. A lot of TVs are coming with network streaming features.

 

[plugwash]

While you can combine TV and sat on the same coax I wouldn't, repeated splitting and remerging isn't going to be good for signal quality. and if you want multiple sky boxes providing RF2 signals to all the other tellys you will need to take the RF feed through all of them before it reaches the distribution amp. You will have magic eye problems too though if you try and run the RF2 from multiple sky boxes to the same place.

 

[ChrisFrost]

You will have magic eye problems too though if you try and run the RF2 from multiple sky boxes to the same place.

There is a solution for that.

There's a little box that allows up to four RF2 signals via the same distribution system, and you can then control each box independently. You allocate an analogue TV channel to each Sky box and the controller handles the magic eye routing. I use quite a few for clients who have a HD box and a Plus box on the same system.

 

[plugwash]

care to provide a name or link for this box?

 

[mads64738]

Hello - many thanks for your reply!

Your descriptions of "independent Sky+/Dual Satellite feed" could be interpreted a few ways. Is it correct to presume you don't want to pay Sky for 4-5 satellite subscriptions to cover the 3 +1-2 rooms?

Yes, at the moment, I have no plans for Sky's multiroom service, but I could imagine that one additional room may have the service in the distant future.

In plain English, you want the option to put a Sky dual tuner box in any of 4-5 rooms. And you want the rest of the house wired for TV, an RF2 satellite box signal, and FM/DAB radio. Is that about it?

Yes, just about. I would like the option to add additional Freesat+ PVRs in any of these rooms. A key objective, is to allow for the installation of one or more standalone Freesat tvs.

I very much doubt all televisions/STBs will be using the satellite signal(s) at once, given the number of rooms and family members.

In "the rest of the house", you are spot-on.

If so, I would forget about a multiswitch and go instead with an octo lnb, then wire 2 feeds to each of the four rooms in your plan.

Next, you want RF return feeds (1xWF100 each) from each of those TV points back to the hub point. That takes care of RF2 from where ever there's a Sky/Sky+/Sky+HD box. How you deal with the return signals depends on how many Sky box FR2 signals you want to pump round the house.

So, to clarify, if I were to go down the route of an octo lnb, I gather this means I should allow for an additional 4 WF100 cables from the loft?

Also, how would I wire this up within the rooms? The multi-service type plates I've seen expect one cable. I guess in this scenario, I would need to find either a multi-service plate that takes more than one cable, or go for a modular faceplate?

Now we'll deal with the aerial distribution system.

You need an 8-way Sky compatible loft box. This takes the aerial feeds from your TV aerial, FM aerial and DAB aerial and combines it with the RF2 feed from one Sky box. The whole signal goes out via a single cable to any room with a TV point and triax plate. Labgear makes a nice unit - the HDU681

By not putting the Satellite dish feed in to the loftbox you neatly sidestep any issues with power for the Sky eyes.

Finally, integrating the RF2 feed/feeds depends on how many boxes you want to be able to pump around your house. This is handled at the hub end so it doesn't need any extra cabling to or from the rooms.

Thanks for the recommendation of a loft-box At the moment, there shall only be one source for RF2 "active" (i.e. plugged into the planned "return" path) at any one time.

Your cabling to each room is:
1xWF100 that need TV/FM/DAB. TV is Freeview + RF2 from Sky

For those rooms that are wired for a satellite box you want an extra 3xWF100. That breaks down as 2 x WF100 from the LNB + 1xWF100 as the RF2 return feed to the hub.

Great - thank you for this breakdown.

Since you are burying cables in the walls it is sensible to have a spare from the hub point to each room as a backup.

While you're at it it wouldn't hurt to throw in some network cable. A lot of TVs are coming with network streaming features.

In terms of the backup, seems sensible - this was my worry all along!

Yes, on this particular part of the installation, I've allowed for 3 Cat5e cables per room to support IP, telephone, and the future HDBase-T standard. If the latter standard doesn't take off, at least I can segregate IP video traffic from anything else.

Once again, thanks for your help - much appreciated!

 

[mads64738]

While you can combine TV and sat on the same coax I wouldn't, repeated splitting and remerging isn't going to be good for signal quality. and if you want multiple sky boxes providing RF2 signals to all the other tellys you will need to take the RF feed through all of them before it reaches the distribution amp. You will have magic eye problems too though if you try and run the RF2 from multiple sky boxes to the same place.

Hello - thanks for your reply.

Reading various bits on this subject, it was my understanding that a combiner would not necessarily affect the quality of the overall signal in a perceptible way (each frequency range for tv, radio, DAB, satellite is different, so should not clash). However, there is no point installing better quality cables if I then stick a poor signal through it!

Regarding the multiple RF2s, at the moment, I'm planning for three locations to be RF2 "source points", however only one will be active (i.e. plugged into my Sky box).

 

[ChrisFrost]

...I would like the option to add additional Freesat+ PVRs in any of these rooms. A key objective, is to allow for the installation of one or more standalone Freesat tvs.

Ah, OK. Now you've given a bit more detail I can better understand your needs. The extra info you've added will change things a little. A multi-switch might be back in consideration.

Let's say you have a room with a Freesat TV and a dual tuner Freesat PVR. That would mean having 3 LNB feeds to just one room. You can see how quickly you could run out of LNB feeds if you try to do this across a number of rooms with just an 8 output (octo) LNB!

Your "...3 rooms, to be able to have an independent Sky+/Dual Satellite feed..." means feeding each with 3 satellite cables; 9 LNB feeds for just those three rooms. On top of this you need two feeds for each Sky+/Sky+HD box. That's 13 satellite feeds before you get to the other rooms that might have a Freesat TV.

This is all do-able. A 24 way (16+8 ) system would cover your needs to provide satellite feeds everywhere, and combination of modular plates along with standard triplexed plates will let you pull all those connections together. (There are multi service plates as you call them that take two or three cable connections: triplexed TV/FM/DAB, then a direct connection for the RF2 return). Some of these also have a telephone jack.

TBH I think you should be discussing this with a local CAI aerial installer who has experience with multi-switch installations. You mentioned "not all the rooms will be using all the satellite signals at once". They might be able to offer some advice on ways to economise. My view would be that Sod's Law inevitably prevails. Plan for that contingency and cover your bases.

 

[ChrisFrost]

care to provide a name or link for this box?

Google TVLink SPC4