Tyrolean/ Render Repairs.....

[ray316]

l have a house that has external tyrolean walls and on one side of the house the tyrolean and blown out in patches and some patches on the wall has actually crumbled taking the tyrolean and render off and needs repairing. What l would like to know is how to go about the render first,
1. Do l apply pva before render.
2. Do l need a scatch coat and top coat.
3. what mix will l need for rendering.
4. Do l need to add anything to sand and cement for render.
5. How much below depth of exsisting tyrolean do l render to.
6. Instuctions on what to do would be great.

Now about Tyrolean finish.
1. How long do l leave render top coat before Tyrolean.
2. Where can l buy/hire . What is best .
3. How do l get bigger flick finish on the walls, does the applicator have setting to do this.
4. Do l have to use tyrolean pre-bagged for tyrolean or
5. Can l use a sand/cement to tyrolean finish.
6. How thick or sloppy should the tyrolean mix be.
7. And finally what sand should l use for render .

l hope someone can help me out here .

 

[noseall]

l have a house that has external tyrolean walls and on one side of the house the tyrolean and blown out in patches and some patches on the wall has actually crumbled taking the tyrolean and render off and needs repairing. What l would like to know is how to go about the render first,
1. Do l apply pva before render.
2. Do l need a scatch coat and top coat.
3. what mix will l need for rendering.
4. Do l need to add anything to sand and cement for render.
5. How much below depth of exsisting tyrolean do l render to.
6. Instuctions on what to do would be great.

Now about Tyrolean finish.
1. How long do l leave render top coat before Tyrolean.
2. Where can l buy/hire . What is best .
3. How do l get bigger flick finish on the walls, does the applicator have setting to do this.
4. Do l have to use tyrolean pre-bagged for tyrolean or
5. Can l use a sand/cement to tyrolean finish.
6. How thick or sloppy should the tyrolean mix be.
7. And finally what sand should l use for render .

l hope someone can help me out here .

Wow! Seems like you need to get a pro' in.

 

[noseall]

1. Do l apply pva before render.

No pva. Damp down with water.

2. Do l need a scatch coat and top coat.

A two coat render is the preferred method. The first coat deals with initial suction, fills any hollows and provides a stable surface for the important weathering coat where time is crucial.

3. what mix will l need for rendering.
4. Do l need to add anything to sand and cement for render.

Variations of 4/5 plastering sand 1 cement and 1 lime with waterproofer are used.

5. How much below depth of existing tyrolean do l render to.

Tricky. Marrying in will be difficult. It may mean patching practically flush then tyrolenening over the lot.

6. Instructions on what to do would be great.

Now about Tyrolean finish.

1. How long do l leave render top coat before Tyrolean.

About 2 days in the winter.

2. Where can l buy/hire . What is best .
3. How do l get bigger flick finish on the walls, does the applicator have setting to do this.

Hire a tyrolenen gun from a hire shop. these have a tensioning bar within that can be adjusted.

4. Do l have to use tyrolean pre-bagged for tyrolean or

Use Cullamix or silver sand and cement. Depends what you are matching.

6. How thick or sloppy should the tyrolean mix be.

You should be able to pour it into the machine though it requires constant stirring. i would liken it to weak porridge.

Some of the real experts will be along shortly......

 

[ray316]

Noseall is it critical to put lime and waterproofer in the mix for rendering and would l need to put them in both coats.
Where do l buy lime and waterproofer and how much do l put in the mix.

You say use Cullamix or silver sand and cement. Depends what you are matching.
Does using one or the other look different when you tyrolean with the applicator and then paint the walls.

 

[noseall]

Noseall is it critical to put lime and waterproofer in the mix for rendering and would l need to put them in both coats.
Where do l buy lime and waterproofer and how much do l put in the mix.

I wouldn't say lime is critical but certainly makes the render usable as opposed to a watery slippery mess. As for adding watrproofer to both coats, this varies amongst spreads. I would say if the masonry is particularly porous then you may benefit from adding w.p. to the scratch coat also.

You say use Cullamix or silver sand and cement. Depends what you are matching.
Does using one or the other look different when you tyrolean with the applicator and then paint the walls.

If you are painting it then do what is practical or economical. I haven't done enough tyrolenening (recently) to comment upon texture differences so one of the more experienced will be along to advise. I do know however that Cullamix is expensive.

P.s. i hate tyroleneing as it takes longer to mask and clean up than it does to do the job!

 

[wozza56]

Noseall is pretty much there with the answers but i would just add that you need to make sure anything that is remotely loose or sounds hollow you need to get off and then any repairs you do will not be in vain

You also really need to have a bit of a play around with the mix of the tyroelene as the thickness of the mix the angle of the gun and even the distance from the wall all make a difference in how it looks when on the wall and if you are trying to blend it in its too late to realise these things when you have already started

Oh and i would only put waterproofer in the scratch coat and add a bit of feb as well ,the amounts will be on the bottle and its available from any builders merchants

 

[noseall]

I hadn't even got started on technique regards the tyrol machine.

Angle, distance from the wall, keep it moving, always do low parts first because as you go higher you tilt the machine and flood the flickers, always stir the broth, dry areas will be easier to coat than wet...etc etc.

It is not a fun job at all!

 

[roughcaster]

Overall,,, rendering/tyrolean, is a very tricky job to do for a novice, and each part of the job, requires it's own particular skill. It's good to try and do these things yourself sometimes, but it can be expensive if it doesn't work out.
Noseall and Wozza have said most of what there is to say in their replies. Important things to mention again are, "don't" use waterproofer in the render top coat,, just plasticiser. Don't tyrolean, (weatherwise) onto a damp or wet rendered surface,, it has to be dry,, plus,, don't overload each coat, which, to obtain a "good texture", might require 3 or 4 coats,, or more. This is where the suction from the dry, top coat of render comes in,, (the one with no waterproofer in). Allow each coat to suck in before you put on the next one,, a fine day with a drying wind is perfect weather for tyrolean,,, but obviously,,,, "never" in wet/damp or freezing weather.

Here's an old link that might help too:

//www.diynot.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=675711#675711

 

[noseall]

Ahhhh, no waterproofer in the top coat. I geddit Rough (suction).

Nice one.

 

[roughcaster]

Ahhhh, no waterproofer in the top coat. I geddit Rough (suction).

Nice one.

Suction's vital,,, otherwise, you wont get the tyrolean texture build up,, it'll just stay too wet, and if overloaded, start to run. Not good!

 

[noseall]

I hadn't even got started on technique regards the tyrol machine.

Angle, distance from the wall, keep it moving, always do low parts first because as you go higher you tilt the machine and flood the flickers, always stir the broth, dry areas will be easier to coat than wet...etc etc.

It is not a fun job at all!

I knew about the suction thing Rough, but forgot about what waterproofer does to suction.

Hence - I'm a plastering professional and you are a professional plasterer.

 

[johnhough]

l have a house that has external tyrolean walls and on one side of the house the tyrolean and blown out in patches and some patches on the wall has actually crumbled taking the tyrolean and render off and needs repairing. What l would like to know is how to go about the render first,
1. Do l apply pva before render.
2. Do l need a scatch coat and top coat.
3. what mix will l need for rendering.
4. Do l need to add anything to sand and cement for render.
5. How much below depth of exsisting tyrolean do l render to.
6. Instuctions on what to do would be great.

Now about Tyrolean finish.
1. How long do l leave render top coat before Tyrolean.
2. Where can l buy/hire . What is best .
3. How do l get bigger flick finish on the walls, does the applicator have setting to do this.
4. Do l have to use tyrolean pre-bagged for tyrolean or
5. Can l use a sand/cement to tyrolean finish.
6. How thick or sloppy should the tyrolean mix be.
7. And finally what sand should l use for render .


1. Not really if surface is secure
2. Only if it's deep
3. 1- 3 or 4 make sure you use rendering sand.
4. No
5. If you are going to tyrolean over virtually level
6. Instuctions on web site & below

Now about Tyrolean finish.
1. Almost Dry
2. See web site addresses. Plastic machine is best
3. Yes. Also hit the wall at an angle after the first coats have gone off
4. No
5. Yes
6. Thick but pourable
7. For the render: Rendering sand. For the Tyrolean: Fine/building sand

Suggest that you mix 1 part cement, 1 part lime and 3 parts sand and mix with water. or half sand and half lime or cement. The consistency should be thick but pourable liquid mortar, approximately a making half centimetre thickness on a trowel. Set the adjustment handle on side of machine to about 2nd setting. Crank handle and keep the machine moving across the wall to be coated. Pass over the area quickly and do not "dwell". You should not expect to cover the 'wall' background until you have passed over several times. The idea is to build up a honeycomb of tiny particles of cement which build up thickness of between 5 & 7mm, (1/4") – (3/8"). Care should be taken not to merge one pass with another whilst still wet as this causes 'slumping'. Provided you start with a reasonable area of wall and make passes along the lines of the horizontal you should not over blow. Later you can vary your direction to get a very random finish. When applied to Cement Blocks or Bricks 'blind' the mortar lines by the use of a render coat. When dry, cover with the "TYROLEAN" finish
Oxide Colouring can be added to the mix prior to spraying and provided the coating has not been painted further coats can be added to freshen the colour in say 4-5 years time. Once a cement has been painted the chemical properties of adhesion are lost.
http://www.toptower.co.uk/tyrol_machine.htm
http://www.latyrolienne.com/the_moustic.html

 

[johnhough]

l have a house that has external tyrolean walls and on one side of the house the tyrolean and blown out in patches and some patches on the wall has actually crumbled taking the tyrolean and render off and needs repairing. What l would like to know is how to go about the render first,
1. Do l apply pva before render.
2. Do l need a scatch coat and top coat.
3. what mix will l need for rendering.
4. Do l need to add anything to sand and cement for render.
5. How much below depth of exsisting tyrolean do l render to.
6. Instuctions on what to do would be great.

Now about Tyrolean finish.
1. How long do l leave render top coat before Tyrolean.
2. Where can l buy/hire . What is best .
3. How do l get bigger flick finish on the walls, does the applicator have setting to do this.
4. Do l have to use tyrolean pre-bagged for tyrolean or
5. Can l use a sand/cement to tyrolean finish.
6. How thick or sloppy should the tyrolean mix be.
7. And finally what sand should l use for render .


1. Not really if surface is secure
2. Only if it's deep
3. 1- 3 or 4 make sure you use rendering sand.
4. No
5. If you are going to tyrolean over virtually level
6. Instuctions on web site & below

Now about Tyrolean finish.
1. Almost Dry
2. See web site addresses. Plastic machine is best
3. Yes. Also hit the wall at an angle after the first coats have gone off
4. No
5. Yes
6. Thick but pourable
7. For the render: Rendering sand. For the Tyrolean: Fine/building sand

Suggest that you mix 1 part cement, 1 part lime and 5 parts sand and mix with water. or half sand and half lime or cement. The consistency should be thick but pourable liquid mortar, approximately a making half centimetre thickness on a trowel. Set the adjustment handle on side of machine to about 2nd setting. Crank handle and keep the machine moving across the wall to be coated. Pass over the area quickly and do not "dwell". You should not expect to cover the 'wall' background until you have passed over several times. The idea is to build up a honeycomb of tiny particles of cement which build up thickness of between 5 & 7mm, (1/4") – (3/8"). Care should be taken not to merge one pass with another whilst still wet as this causes 'slumping'. Provided you start with a reasonable area of wall and make passes along the lines of the horizontal you should not over blow. Later you can vary your direction to get a very random finish. When applied to Cement Blocks or Bricks 'blind' the mortar lines by the use of a render coat. When dry, cover with the "TYROLEAN" finish
Oxide Colouring can be added to the mix prior to spraying and provided the coating has not been painted further coats can be added to freshen the colour in say 4-5 years time. Once a cement has been painted the chemical properties of adhesion are lost.
http://www.toptower.co.uk/tyrol_machine.htm
http://www.latyrolienne.com/the_moustic.html