Vacuum cleaner permitted kW size?

[ericmark]

I thought there was now a limit to vacuum cleaner size? My wife has come home with a Flymo vacuum cleaner from Morrison's rated at 3000 watt, I thought limit was 900 watt? OK not really a vacuum cleaner, was told that years ago, it's an air velocity cleaner, whole idea is the speed of the air picks up dirt and carries it with it. Be it a road sweeper, or little battery home cleaner there is in theory no such beast as a vacuum cleaner.

So any ban on vacuum cleaner size is really pointless, as they don't exist in the first place, but I am sure the actual regulation calls it a floor cleaner or some thing like that?

I have called it the Hoover for years, even if made by Dyson. But how can they still sell 3 kW cleaners, is this due to leaving EU, was the law not transferred?

 

[bernardgreen]

I bought my Samsung cleaner rated at 1.9--2.1 kW from Curry's with a large sale discount ( 50% if I recall correctly ) so it was a real bargain..

I realised after buying it that they were unloading stock of cleaners that were about to be outlawed by the EU.

 

[JP_]

I bought a new Miele 890 W. If it is on full power I cannot move it over the carpet, well, not without some serious effort.
It's probably running at 500W for most vacuuming.
Cuts power bills, still very effective.

 

[winston1]

I have called it the Hoover for years, even if made by Dyson. But how can they still sell 3 kW cleaners, is this due to leaving EU, was the law not transferred?

Well you were wrong for many years. Old stock can be sold until exhausted. We have not left the EU at this time and EU law still applies.

 

[Lumo]

I wondered why I couldn't find much over 1kw when looking recently. For the amount I vacuum, it will take many many years for the consumption difference between 1kw and 2kw be noticed.

 

[JP_]

But why do you need a 2kw cleaner? Are you vacuuming gravel, or do you just like really inefficient tools?

 

[Lumo]

If rubble is gravel, then yes. Also, motor lasts longer

 

[JP_]

My last Miele motor lasted 16 years, and only really failed because i decided to use it on a building site instead of sweep!

 

[Lumo]

...only really failed because i decided to use it on a building site instead of sweep!

My point exactly. Maybe we are talking about the same thing. 2kw ones generally don't die when they encounter something bigger than carpet dust.

 

[JP_]

I don't think mine failed due to too much stuff, but just getting very very dirty and dusty in all the wrong places! I think I blocked the air vents, it overheated then popped.

 

[ericmark]

Seems she wants to use it outside the house, will blow as well as suck, in doors we have moved to battery models, it seems odd, as one would expect weight of battery would make them heavier than mains models, but in fact it is far lighter, and being able to remove the pipe between cleaner and brushes make it far better on the stairs.

As an apprentice we had wagon mounted vacuum cleaners with a 100 horse power engine, able to suck up a brick, and a limit seems crazy as it would mark the end of street cleaning as we know it.

To call it a carpet cleaner would include those that use water and wash the carpet, and you want some heat to dry out carpet, so the large motors help dry the carpet, plus we no longer have fitted carpets in every room, and cleaning wood block floors needs some thing slightly different.

With the cleaners I have used varying with brush width from around 6 inches to 5 foot I can't see how one can have a one size fits all? Also the ability to work dry only or wet/dry I used a cleaner with no brushes for cleaning up sawdust, which had something like a grease bucket to collect the dirt/sawdust/water.

I will guess like bulbs, the whole range of cleaners can still be sold, if the label says something like rough service, or garden use? The new battery cleaner has a brush half the size of the old Dyson ball, and has separate motor for brushes to vacuum motor, and if I was to clean a large area the effort and time required varies by a huge amount, an 18" brush clearly covers more area per pass than a 9" brush, and the old Ewbank did a good job of cleaning with no motor and no suction, but it needed a clear floor to use it.

So the 900 watt limit must have more to it, does it include the human effort required within that 900 watt limit? and does it include effort to turn cleaning brushes?

 

[SimonH2]

I can't help wondering if the very sharp rise in battery models is in part a way of getting around the power limit. If a battery model will (for example) run for 20 minutes but take an hour to recharge then, ignoring charge-discharge losses, the device can be 3 times the allowed power limit. There is the issue of battery capacity which is a big driver to reduce power consumption, but I have wondered whether getting around the power limit has been a factor.

 

[ericmark]

We had one clearer where we set it off, and returned hour latter and emptied it and put it back on charge, it did not matter if it went over same bit 10 times, we did not need to spend time with it. But where we need to spend time with the device then speed is important, so old Dyson ball and once over is enough, new Vax battery, and maybe 3 or 4 times pass over same point, clearly not having to spend time wrapping up lead also has to be factored in, and being light to carry up and down stairs, but all in all the old Dyson ball was the fastest vacuum we have had, the Kirby was a really well made vacuum, but the weight carrying up stairs was silly, the Hoover Junior was the main stay of cleaning for years, but it wanted a lot of maintenance, for ever running the beater/sweeper bearings. So often the old barrel type worked better, including those build on a grease bucket that could also suck up water.

But it was down to each house hold to select what worked best for them, be it a 6 inch sweep or 24 inch sweep, it depended on the house, so if max motor is 900 watt then the 18 inch becomes a 9 inch so still the same cleaning power, but takes twice as long. If rules said 100 watt per 2 inch sweep then OK, but without stipulating size it is just silly.

 

[SimonH2]

Yes, it's a crude measure, but when setting down regulations, at least they decided to go down the simple route rather than some complicated performance metric that would have made test houses richer and leave lots of room for gaming the system
And I can see the logic. Many manufacturers were content to simply stick with inefficient systems and make up for that with more power - at least imposing a power limit means they have to consider efficiency or just get a reputation for not sucking up the dirt. I specifically said system rather than motor, since it's not just about replacing a shaded pole motor with some form of brushless DC motor, you have to consider the performance of the fan etc as well.

And as to the "how much does it really save", again it comes down to ...
for the individual, not a lot; but add up millions of cleaner hours/year across the EU and it could add up to a fair bit.
There's been consideration of kettles as well - and that is NOT about limiting power rating, it's about things like clear labelling so it's easy to boil (eg) just one cup of water, speed of switching off when the water is boiled, etc. Again, it's not about the few kW-seconds for an individual use; it's about many millions of kW-seconds every day.

 

[ericmark]

I wonder how you measure kWh used by a cleaner? With a fridge or freezer we have labels showing yearly use, it does not matter if a 1/3 duty cycle or a 2/3 duty cycle with a double the power motor, it is down to net result.

As a 600W cleaner and 1200W cleaner would use same power if the 1200W did the job in half the time. I spilt some bird seed, took the battery cleaner and all it did was move them around, with them falling back out of tube when I switched it off, and simply not picking up most of it. Wife handed me the 3 kW garden sucker/blower and all seed gone in 1/2 a minute, thought I was going to take off.

Simply right tool for the job, however for cleaning stair carpet the battery job is A1, far better than any other cleaner we have had, I would not use the Dyson ball or the Flymo garden vac on the stairs, simply not the right tool, but I decide which to use, not the government.

As to kettle, I have two on the kitchen counter, both same make, both boil one cup of water, one fixed amount no way to switch off, one with a variable control and a stop button, the latter is slower than former, although both 3 kW, works out well as I like a large cup of coffee and my wife likes a smaller cup, so both go under together and we get two cups of coffee very quickly, however as to how much power, since one boils quicker than the other, having a one cup boiler does no mean it costs less, when set to smaller cup size it bleeds some of the output back into main tank, and when I have forgotten to check setting and it does not fill cup, then clearly waste when boiling second time. Son has the smaller one only, and fills a jug and then transfers to cup, I think that is dangerous, but better than it over flowing as no stop button on smaller version.

When visitors arrive, it's to the filter coffee machine, often with just water in the jug, so we have enough water for every one. Also no damage if it boils dry. So from a 3 kW and cup of coffee in seconds, I go to 500W and 1/2 hour to boil, if in deed it ever boils.

I would like to see insulation around kettles so they stay hot, they are made and actually very little price difference to one cup kettles, but laws could end up getting rid of one, where they both work well.