Vaillant Ecomax 835/2E making loud noises HELP

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Hi,

I'm hoping someone can tell me what is going on with my boiler before I end up spending a fortune.

I wanted to get an Ariston as they came with a 5 yr guarantee but my installer recommended a Vaillant. The Valliant Ecomax 835/2e was installed 3 years ago and never really heated the property to be honest. I should have dealt with this sooner but never got around to it. It has rarely been used, maybe 3-4 month per year at 12 hours per day.

The problems I am having are:

1) from when it was installed has has been making loud noises like a helicopter taking off (I didn't realise it was the boiler- I kept looking out the window), now it still makes loud banging noises. These noises only occur when the CH is on, when the HW system is functioning, it is very quiet.

2) Never really heats up the radiators. I have a 5 bedroom house with 11 radiators, the one in the hallway is quite hot, but the one in the living room does not get that hot. Same for upstairs, the one in the bathroom is OK, the ones in the attics only get lukewarm. 2 of the 11 radiators are fitted in the cellar which we never use.

What could be causing these loud noises? I have searched for old thread for the Ecomax 835 and there are only a few, one of which looked like a heat exchanger fix after lack of system flush?

Thanks in advance

PS: If there is anyone in the Leeds/Bradford area who offers reasonable servicing/repairs, please let me know.
 
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If the noise is more like a fog horn then its probably as a result of a wrongly set combustion process.

I am sorry if you think that I am critical but there are several aspects of how you have dealt with this situation that are rather disappointing.

It seems you have used non CORGI builders to install the boiler and did not immediately call them when it was obviously not working correctly.

Apparently you did not register the warranty as the manufacturers dont seem to have replaced the seals which almost certainly will have been faulty.

Nor have you bothered to have it serviced. It had a two year guarantee but needed a service after the first year. You did not get any problems fixed by the installer/manufacturer.

Even now you are reluctant to spend much money on it. As a matter of interest, how much do you consider "reasonable" for servicing/repairs?

Tony
 
If the noise is more like a fog horn then its probably as a result of a wrongly set combustion process.

I'll try to record the noises and upload it and you guys can have a listen.

I am sorry if you think that I am critical but there are several aspects of how you have dealt with this situation that are rather disappointing.

It seems you have used non CORGI builders to install the boiler and did not immediately call them when it was obviously not working correctly.

I agree with you that I should have looked into this sooner. As far as I know, the installer was CORGI registered. I should have called him and got him to have a look at it, but the house was being renovated during and after the installation, and was unoccupied during this time. Hence we did not have a good opportunity to check out the system fully. One the day and evening after installation, we were told to leave the system on full, which we did, but were not at the property to see if everything was running well, although I did remember noticing at the time that the system did not heat well, I thought it would improve, and the same with the noises.


Apparently you did not register the warranty as the manufacturers dont seem to have replaced the seals which almost certainly will have been faulty.

Which seals would these be? We registered the warranty, but have not had anyone from Vaillant replace anything. Sent off the card after installation.


Nor have you bothered to have it serviced. It had a two year guarantee but needed a service after the first year. You did not get any problems fixed by the installer/manufacturer.

It was not serviced, the main reason for that was, it had not been in use as my house was unoccupied for approx 18 months after installation. In hindsight I should have had it looked at.


Even now you are reluctant to spend much money on it. As a matter of interest, how much do you consider "reasonable" for servicing/repairs?

I'm not reluctant to spend money on it, after all I paid quite a bit to get the system installed, and installed the best system that I could afford at the time. I don't mind paying for service/repair, but over the years that it took to renovate this property top to bottom, I have had my fair share of harrowing experiences with builders, plumbers, installers some of whom asked for money up front for "materials" who never turned up after I gave them the money! I just want to know what is wrong with my system and get someone who is honest to fix it.
 
Many of the Vaillant boilers made at about that time were fitted with seals which turned out to be faulty and potentially dangerous.

Dave who posts here, will probably have a better idea of wheather your boiler was affected. If you can extract the serial number you could call Vaillant if you have 30 minutes to waste on the phone or could try to email them with the serial.

If the card was returned then one would expect that your model was not affected but it would be best to check if Dave thinks it was included. The replacement is free but would often be done as part of the routine annual service ( which you missed ). Again Dave will advise.

I have heard of an asian fellow who also teaches gas in the college who is very good who I think is in Leeds If no one else here has any suitable suggestions then I can get his contact details off the forum via my profile.

Tony Glazier
 
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It is very doubtful boiler is incapable of heating the property. Number of radiators is like saying you want a drink to a barkeeper. Number does not indicate loading on a heat source

Boiler can output 28 kWatts of heat. In other words, it is like running 6 two bar, 4 three bar and one four bar electric heater. More likely cause of failure is incorrect plumbing.

A room with ceiling height of 10 ft, 15 by 12 floor and ill-fitting casement windows might need a 4.5kwatt radiator.
 
'Officially' none of the Ecomax boilers were affected with the seal problem, hence the reason OP has never been contacted by Vaillant.

Us out in the field know different. If the boiler had been serviced correctly the seal would have been changed at the first service anyway. This does not, however, account for the condensate seal at the bottom which goes very brittle and will not last as long as the supposed 5 years of the new burner seal.

It is nearly impossible to guess what could be causing your 'noise' without being in front of the boiler, but I do know a good engineer who lives in the Leeds area. e-mail me from my profile and I will give you his mobile.

As said already, this boiler 'should' be too big for your system, so should haveno problems heating all your rads.

I would stick my neck out and say the system and HE is full of carp.
 
I agree with dave, you will most likely need a door seal, a new pump and the system checking for sludge/dirt. Vaillant do fixed price repairs call 01773 828100 for more info.
 
Hi,

Thanks for the replies DP, Agile, Gas4You and Dangermouse. I've just PM'ed you for the address of the guy you mention. Just to add, it was serviced a year after installation, but nothing was done to it, like I said it was never used, so the guy that installed it came out and only "inspected" it.

I have "played" around with the boiler and managed to record the sounds. I placed the MP3 player on the flap which can be seen in the pictures below.

You can listen to the sounds it makes by clicking on the link below boiler noise.wav - 0.96MB

These sounds are heard very often if the central heating temperature is put to the maximum setting as in pciture below. This is the recommended setting on the flap if a room thermostat device is used. The temperature read out on the boiler increases 75, 77, and when it gets to 81 degrees, then the sounds are heard. It sound like water is boiling but much louder and they are heard 5-10 seconds and then they stop, then 10 seconds later, they start again as can be heard in the recording.

1058g7a.jpg


If the central heating temperature is decreased to 70 degrees like in the second picture below, then the sound is heard less frequently, maybe every 30-45 minutes but the noise is still heard.

2emdgme.jpg


Does that help you guys give me more accurate info? Are you still of the same opinions?
 
don't personally know this boiler as well as the other guys, but for the moment just turn the temperature down on the boiler; about 50-55 for water and 70 for heating. the manual will also tell you how to limit the output for the heating, set that to 15 kw. it is NOT a remedy for the problems but will hopefully reduce the banging noises until the problem is really sorted out. the banging noise is really not good
 
Just listened to the sound.

What you have is muck in the main HE. This has settled in the HE tubes at the bottom of the HE and I assume either this is whilst on for HW or when running at full or nearly full?

It simply needs a backflushing of the main HE whilst isolated from the heating system.

Easy to do, but time consuming and awkward to describe.

Very, Very common noise with Vaillants with muck in the system.
 
Just listened to the sound.

What you have is muck in the main HE. This has settled in the HE tubes at the bottom of the HE and I assume either this is whilst on for HW or when running at full or nearly full?

No sound is heard with just the hot water operating only when CH switched on. If I put the central heating temp to full by putting the central heating knob fully to the right as in the first picture, the sound is heard every 10 seconds. The recording is a continous recording, it is not spliced together, so as you can hear, in the space of 1 minute, those noises are heard around 4 times. If I turn the central heating temp down on the boiler as in the second picture where it is at 69 degrees, then it happens every 30-45 minutes.

It simply needs a backflushing of the main HE whilst isolated from the heating system.

Easy to do, but time consuming and awkward to describe.

Very, Very common noise with Vaillants with muck in the system.

I'm very surprised that this has happened TBH. My parents have a Ravenheat boiler which are pants with very high load ~10 rads, it's on continuously 24 hrs for weeks on end and it has been fine for 7 years. Never ever heard a noise from it. This Vaillant was highly recommended.

How much should this backflushing procedure cost me and would it be generally included in the boiler service? British Gas (Am I allowed to say that or not) have offered me service plus 12 months breakdown cover for £58 with £50 excess for fault repair. Would it be better from an independent Corgi boiler engineer?

But they exclude Powerflush in the policy. Would the above procedure be considered "powerflush"?



PowerFlush

PowerFlush is a way of removing sludge and other waste from central-heating systems. We may also suggest you correct any design faults which might cause the problem to return. This work can increase the life of your system, and improve efficiency.

When a repair is needed due to sludge (for example, damage to the pump, valves or radiators), we will carry out this job, at no extra cost, as long as we have not already told you that you need a PowerFlush or similar procedure. Our engineer will also tell you what other work is needed to avoid further problems, or offer you a different British Gas HomeCare Flexi® option.

If we recommend that you carry out a PowerFlush, we will charge you to carry out this work. Once it is finished, there will be no charge for any future PowerFlush work that may be needed as long as you keep a continuous HomeCare Flexi 100™, HomeCare Flexi 200™, HomeCare Flexi 300™ or HomeCare Flexi 400™ agreement with us at that property and as long as we carry out any work to correct design faults.[/quote]
 
Just listened to the sound.

What you have is muck in the main HE. This has settled in the HE tubes at the bottom of the HE and I assume either this is whilst on for HW or when running at full or nearly full?

No sound is heard with just the hot water operating only when CH switched on. If I put the central heating temp to full by putting the central heating knob fully to the right as in the first picture, the sound is heard every 10 seconds. The recording is a continous recording, it is not spliced together, so as you can hear, in the space of 1 minute, those noises are heard around 4 times. If I turn the central heating temp down on the boiler as in the second picture where it is at 69 degrees, then it happens every 30-45 minutes.

It simply needs a backflushing of the main HE whilst isolated from the heating system.

Easy to do, but time consuming and awkward to describe.

Very, Very common noise with Vaillants with muck in the system.

I'm very surprised that this has happened TBH. My parents have a Ravenheat boiler which are pants with very high load ~10 rads, it's on continuously 24 hrs for weeks on end and it has been fine for 7 years. Never ever heard a noise from it. This Vaillant was highly recommended.

I guess I have 2 options:-

1) Get it serviced and flushed by independent engineer, maybe the one who installed it.

How much should this backflushing procedure cost me and would it be generally included in the boiler service?

2) Take out a policy with Homeserve/British gas

British Gas (Am I allowed to say that or not) have offered me service plus 12 months breakdown cover for £58 with £50 excess for fault repair.

But they exclude Powerflush in the policy. Would the above procedure be considered "powerflush"?



PowerFlush

PowerFlush is a way of removing sludge and other waste from central-heating systems. We may also suggest you correct any design faults which might cause the problem to return. This work can increase the life of your system, and improve efficiency.

When a repair is needed due to sludge (for example, damage to the pump, valves or radiators), we will carry out this job, at no extra cost, as long as we have not already told you that you need a PowerFlush or similar procedure. Our engineer will also tell you what other work is needed to avoid further problems, or offer you a different British Gas HomeCare Flexi® option.

If we recommend that you carry out a PowerFlush, we will charge you to carry out this work. Once it is finished, there will be no charge for any future PowerFlush work that may be needed as long as you keep a continuous HomeCare Flexi 100™, HomeCare Flexi 200™, HomeCare Flexi 300™ or HomeCare Flexi 400™ agreement with us at that property and as long as we carry out any work to correct design faults.[/quote][/quote]
 
See my e-mail to you.

If my friend can fit you in he will. He is a genuine engineer ;)
 
I have called the original installer 3 times now and he has stud me up 3 times :evil: I wanted him to determine the fault and see what could be done, but I guess I'll have to do it myself.

I've unfortunately been made redundant after Christmas I cannot afford £500 to get someone in to get it powerflushed. The DHW system has also started to make the noise when the tap is running now, before it was only when the CH was on and the boiler went to high temps as stated previously. I have decided to tackle it myself with the help of a neighbour who knows a bit about DIY. I am thinking of following the method outlined by ChrisHutt in this thread //www.diynot.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=38902&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=
with a few modifications as I don't know how to isolate the boiler to backflush the HE

This is what I am planning to do:-

1) Completely drain the system and then refill with cold water twice
2) Heat the CH system to around 50 degrees C for a few hours and then drain the system again.
3) I'm going to put Sentinel X400 into one of the rads and run the system for 2 weeks. I'm not going to isolate the boiler, as I'm not too confident on doing that bit. I'm just going to run it with the Sentinel going around ALL the system and hopefully it'll clean out the heat exchanger when it's going around.
4) Drain the system again, refill and then drain again
5) Add Sentinel x100 inhibitor, refill the system.

OR should I make an effort to find out how to isolate the boiler and backflush the HE rather than trying to do it this way?

Sarah
 

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