Vaillant EcoTech Plus837 leaking diverter valve & noisy

[MHAD]

Hello

I have a Vaillant EcoTech Plus 837. At 6.30 this morning I noticed that there was water slowly dripping out of the casing, which was warm. It wasn't dripping last night...

The boiler was fitter by a Gas Safe and Vaillant registered installer in Oct 2009 (who, although isn't on-the-doorstep-local, isn't too far away) as part of a bigger job when I was having some structural work done on the house. Around half of the copper to the rads is new, the other half is around 10-12 years old. He also fitted a wet underfloor heating system which has a separate manifold and "Pert/Alu/Pert Multilayered Pipe" for the underfloor loops. He also fitted two new rads (with new copper to them) and the rest of the rads in the house were replaced with new about three and a half years ago. The last time the system was refilled was in Dec 2009, Sentinel X100 Inhibitor and X200 Noise Reducer were added.

I've noticed what I think is "kettling" in a few downstairs rads over the past few weeks, sounds like something metallic and loose moving around inside one rad in particular.

The boiler has been very noisy on occasion with a mid / low pitch vibrating noise coming from inside the boiler, which is cured by either running hot water or turning the boiler off for a few minutes and back on again.

The boiler was serviced just before Christmas by a different local heating engineer (as the installer wasn't available at the time). Nothing major to report.

I called the same heating firm back this morning and to give them credit they've already been round. The diagnosis is a faulty / leaking diverter valve, and a noisy Wilo pump which is "on it's way out". He said that Vaillant had moved away from Grundfos to Wilo, then back to Grundfos again due to having problems.

His recommendation was to:

1. get Vaillant to replace the diverter valve under warranty, and possibly the pump
2. possibly get the system powerflushed
3. have a Magnaclean unit fitted to the return on the heating circuit

Vaillant are coming out for a warranty call on Wednesday to do their bit.


My questions are:

1. Are Vaillant likley to replace the pump with another Wilo since that's what's there now, or would they fit a Grundfos if that's what they're now using in new boilers? (is there really a difference?)
2. Is powerflushing worth it? I've read mixed opinions, and I'd be concerned about introducing new leaks elsewhere.
3. The Magnaclean product looks excellent - is it as good as the review say? And should I go for the Professional or the TwinTech?
4. Should I also have the system cleaned with something like Sentinel X400 sludge remover?
4. What should I expect to pay, roughly, for jobs 2 and 3 (and 4 if necessary) ?

Any other advice or comments to throw in would be great too!

Hope I've provided enough info.

Thank you!

 

[lightning]

They might not touch it as boiler should have been power-flushed or chemicals flushed through on part of comissioning on boiler.

 

[mickyg]

1. Are Vaillant likley to replace the pump with another Wilo since that's what's there now, or would they fit a Grundfos if that's what they're now using in new boilers? (is there really a difference?)
2. Is powerflushing worth it? I've read mixed opinions, and I'd be concerned about introducing new leaks elsewhere.
3. The Magnaclean product looks excellent - is it as good as the review say? And should I go for the Professional or the TwinTech?
4. Should I also have the system cleaned with something like Sentinel X400 sludge remover?
5. What should I expect to pay, roughly, for jobs 2 and 3 (and 4 if necessary)

1. Vaillant will fit a grundfos as thats all they use now. They are more reliable due to the fact the Wilos suffered on dirty systems.
2. Yes but only if done properly which is rarely.
3. It works well, but they have had many issues with leaks, many of us prefer to us the Spirotech magnabooster or Fernox TF1 instead.
4. The powerflush should involve some heavy duty chemicals already.
5. Nothing for job 2. Its the installers job to ensure the boiler is installed onto a clean system, if this hasnt been done then I'd expect it to be rectified foc.
Job 3 depends on pipework etc.. can't comment on other peoples rates. BG charge somewhere in the region of £250.

 

[MHAD]

1. Vaillant will fit a grundfos as thats all they use now. They are more reliable due to the fact the Wilos suffered on dirty systems.
2. Yes but only if done properly which is rarely.
3. It works well, but they have had many issues with leaks, many of us prefer to us the Spirotech magnabooster or Fernox TF1 instead.
4. The powerflush should involve some heavy duty chemicals already.
5. Nothing for job 2. Its the installers job to ensure the boiler is installed onto a clean system, if this hasnt been done then I'd expect it to be rectified foc.
Job 3 depends on pipework etc.. can't comment on other peoples rates. BG charge somewhere in the region of £250.

Thanks mickyg, that's a great help. I'll look into the Magnabooster and TF1. There's plenty of access underneath the boiler where a unit like this could go, so if the system is drained it wouldn't take too long.

 

[MHAD]

3. It works well, but they have had many issues with leaks, many of us prefer to us the Spirotech magnabooster or Fernox TF1 instead.

I like the look of both of these in preference to the Magnaclean. They look easier to operate post-install, and as if they'd take up less space. There's ample room underneath the boiler but access to it is awkward, which could make the cleaning the Magaclean a harder job to do.

To fit a TF1 or Spirotech... I'm fairly comfortable with draining the system, cutting pipework and using compression fittings... is it as straight forward as it looks?

Using the TF1 as a dosing point for inhibitor etc when the system is refilled also appeals.

If I was to do this myself, eg: a TF1, what's the recommended sequence of events? Something like this is what I had in mind:

Drain System > Fit TF1 > Refill > Add F3 Cleaner

(Run for how long?? Is there anything special that needs to be done, ie: flow temp or anything?)

Empty TF1 > Drain System > Refill > Add F1 Inhibitor (also considering F2 Silencer)

But I haven't done this before so again any help is appreciated !

 

[Agile]

Kettling only ocurs in boilers where heat is applied and not in rads.

Please post to let us know what the Vaillant engineer does. As both faults have been as a result of dirt in the system that will be interesting.

The bearings in the Wilo are made of plastic. Thats fine on a clean system but they are worn if there is fine magnetite in the water. The Grunfoss id very hard ceramic. They are more prone to jamming than the Wilo but more resistant to wear. Also rather more expensive to make and thus to buy.

Tony

 

[MHAD]

Kettling only ocurs in boilers where heat is applied and not in rads.

Please post to let us know what the Vaillant engineer does. As both faults have been as a result of dirt in the system that will be interesting.

The bearings in the Wilo are made of plastic. Thats fine on a clean system but they are worn if there is fine magnetite in the water. The Grunfoss id very hard ceramic. They are more prone to jamming than the Wilo but more resistant to wear. Also rather more expensive to make and thus to buy.

Tony

Thanks Tony. What could the sound of something loose and metallic in the rad be? (It's always the same rad).

I'll post on what Vaillant do. If they won't touch it then my recourse is to go back to the original installer I suppose.

 

[Agile]

Might be a loose screw or something in the rad?

As mentioned above, the installer does not seem to have properly cleaned the system. I always try to but then I charge £840 to install a boiler whereas some people pay just £350 ( and then wonder why it was not properly cleaned ).

Unless you can get the original installer to do the job on a free/cheap basis on account of his responsibility, my natural response would be to get someone else ( better! ).

Tony

 

[MHAD]

3. It works well, but they have had many issues with leaks, many of us prefer to us the Spirotech magnabooster or Fernox TF1 instead.

I like the look of both of these in preference to the Magnaclean. They look easier to operate post-install, and as if they'd take up less space. There's ample room underneath the boiler but access to it is awkward, which could make the cleaning the Magaclean a harder job to do.

To fit a TF1 or Spirotech... I'm fairly comfortable with draining the system, cutting pipework and using compression fittings... is it as straight forward as it looks?

Using the TF1 as a dosing point for inhibitor etc when the system is refilled also appeals.

If I was to do this myself, eg: a TF1, what's the recommended sequence of events? Something like this is what I had in mind:

Drain System > Fit TF1 > Refill > Add F3 Cleaner

(Run for how long?? Is there anything special that needs to be done, ie: flow temp or anything?)

Empty TF1 > Drain System > Refill > Add F1 Inhibitor (also considering F2 Silencer)

But I haven't done this before so again any help is appreciated !

Just to get back on topic would anyone mind letting me know if I've got this right?

 

[MHAD]

Please post to let us know what the Vaillant engineer does. As both faults have been as a result of dirt in the system that will be interesting.

Vaillant engineer has been this morning. Replaced the diverter valve and pump.

He also said that the system was pretty clean and that in his opinion fitting a Magnaclean or similar wasn't urgent but would be "belt & braces".

So now I'm wondering what to do !

 

[Agile]

Based on his assessmant and as he replaced the pump then you dont seem to need to do anything apart from adding inhibitor if your system may not have any.

I prefer Sentinel X100.

Tony

 

[MHAD]

Based on his assessmant and as he replaced the pump then you dont seem to need to do anything apart from adding inhibitor if your system may not have any.

I prefer Sentinel X100.

Tony

Last dose of X100 was in Dec 2009 as mentioned above.

I have some other work that needs to be done (commissioning the wet underfloor heating system - mainly electrical work but also needs a motorised valve fitting). Fitting a magnetic cleaner to the return could be an option when that work is done as part of the one job I suppose.

 

[Agile]

If the system is to be partly drained then I suppose that adding a mag filter would be a good idea.

Its always better to complete a system and then commission the boiler and add the inhibitor all at the same time.

Regular draining to keep on adding new rads etc. is never a good idea. If any does have to be done its better to turn off all rad valves and isolate the boiler to keep them full and only drain the pipework.

Tony