water softeners

[Brigadier]

Hi,

trying to think of any ways possible to reduce heating bills this coming autumn / winter - thermal plasterboards, loft lagging, underfloor insulation, CH pipe lagging, etc.

We live in a hard water area - would that reduce the efficiency of our (potterton performa 28) combi boiler due to scaling up? If so, to what extent?

I have been looking at water softeners, but haven't a clue whether a. they're worth the bother, and b. whether any are better than others. What are the different types, how easy are each to fit, how expensive (both to buy and run), and how effective are they?

Or would I be better off spending my time and dough on another energy-saving ruse?

Thanks in advance

 

[JohnD]

water softeners are excellent things in many ways

but if saving energy is your aim, work on insulation and draughtproofing

 

[Brigadier]

Agreed on the insulation etc, but the (obscure) point of my original post was to ask whether hard (Staffs) water would affect a combi to a measureable degree.

Also, I've seen various types of water softener (magnetic, electronic, plumbed-in with chemical dosing, etc).

Being an old cynic, the magnetic and electronic non-plumbed-in ones seem a bit charlatan to me - is that unfair, or do they do a decent job?

And another thing - I've seen in more than one reference source to not soften your drinking tap water. Why? Is it just a taste issue, or something more fundamental?

But something that also didn't make any sense - the Collins DIY Manual said that softening your water would stop your kettle furring up. But most kettles are filled from the (non-softened) drinking water tap. So how does that work?

 

[D_Hailsham]

Agreed on the insulation etc,

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You don't always need to be on benefits to get big reductions. We had our 4 bed detached house cavity insulated for £250.

the point of my original post was to ask whether hard (Staffs) water would affect a combi to a measurable degree

.
On the CH side, NO. Once they system is filled and the lime scale has been deposited, that's that. The problem only arises if fresh water is continually being added to the heating circuit, due to a fault.

On the HW side, provided you don't want water coming out of your taps at over 60C, the solids stay in suspension and do not get deposited on the pipes.

I've seen in more than one reference source to not soften your drinking tap water. Why? Is it just a taste issue, or something more fundamental?

This does not refer to magnetic or electronic water softeners, just the expensive plumbed in types. It is because softened water has a very high salt content and drinking very salty water can cause serious health problems.

Presumably Collins is thinking that the salts will be removed when the water is boiled. I was never any good at chemistry, but that sounds nonsense to me.

 

[JohnD]

An ion-exchange softener replaces the limescale with a tiny amount of Sodium Bicarbonate (the stuff you can take for indigestion). A chemist could work out how many mg this would be per litre, but it is not much.

Some people are on low-sodium diets so this may be unsuitable for them.

There is some research to suggest that more sodium increases the amount of heart disease.

I fill my kettle with softened water, and it makes a better cup of tea.

The belt-and-braces advice seems to be, to have a hard-water cold supply to your kitchen for drinking. If you want, you can put a tiny water filter dispenser on it.

Personally I don't bother, and I keep my sodium intake down by not eating cornflakes, meat pies, crisps or much tomato ketchup (many prepared foods are crammed with salt)

p.s. with respect to Mr H, water softeners do NOT put salt in the water. The salt is used to regenerate the resin, and is rinsed away into the drain. During regeneration, when salt is being used, the valves bypass the chamber and prevent salt flowing into the tap supply.

 

[D_Hailsham]

p.s. with respect to Mr H, water softeners do NOT put salt in the water. The salt is used to regenerate the resin, and is rinsed away into the drain. During regeneration, when salt is being used, the valves bypass the chamber and prevent salt flowing into the tap supply.

Sodium carbonate, sodium bicarbonate - I said I was never any good at chemistry. Maths and Physics is logical, Chemistry is a black art.

 

[JohnD]

And Collins is correct

View media item 4336
The softener removes that lime minerals from the water, that cause limescale.

 

[Brigadier]

Do non-plumbed-in magnetic and electronic water softeners work, and how?

BTW, thanks for the heads-up on the rest.