What type of plaster is this? Does it look ancient? Asbestos?

[Jackitate]

We are looking to fill in this hole that has been left exposed for over a period of ten years. It has been left in the state you have seen it, nobody has touched or fiddled with it since then but it is not extremely healthy looking.

The house is Edwardian, built in 1909, and we are clueless as to it the house has been replastered since then.

There are fears that this material could contain asbestos. It is extremely compact material, if that helps.

If I am correct, if it is the original plaster there would be no worry. Underneath the lining paper (on previous areas of the house we have worked on) the plaster is smooth in texture.

Just looking for opinions as the occupants of the house are panic ridden.

What does this plaster look like to you? Does it fit the 1909 period? Or does it look extremely old? What does it contain upon seeing the images / videos? What is the plaster made up of? I am clueless myself!

The fibres are from the torn paper and there doesn't seem to be any (noticeable) fibres in the plaster make up- behind the plaster is pure brick wall that the house was made with.

There is little bits of white stuff. Is there any concern? Any opinion is welcomed. Trying to work out if this plaster is the original plaster or not / if it is common to find asbestos in residential plaster. This has been left exposed for over 10 years.

If it is asbestos, hopefully it gives us enough time until growing organs in the lab is a possibility so we can replace our ones lol. It was made by rocking back and forth on a chair, making the hole overtime.

I know it's incredibly hard to identify from an image if it is an ACM, but we are trying to cut out any potential risk factors / until we can afford testing or a surveyor. We would have been exposed for the past 10 years or so if it is an ACM, anything to bring peace of mind would be OK - even if it does turn out to be an ACM it would give us all time to prepare for any implications that can arise from exposure in the past.

In short, what type of plaster does this look like?
What is the likelihood that this house has been refurbished or replastered/how could we find out?
Upon first inspection, what materials does this plaster contain?
Does it look like plaster from an Edwardian or very old house house (90 years old / longer)?

Thanks

 

[footprints]

If you read similar posts on here the answer is no one can say just from looking if anything contains asbestos.

Having said that, it doesn't look like any asbestos product I have ever seen.

If I came upon that sort of thing on a wall I would tend to think cement render or plaster, what is the red/pink material, is that the brick and is that timber at the bottom of the picture?
The paper looks like standard woodchip.

 

[Jackitate]

If you read similar posts on here the answer is no one can say just from looking if anything contains asbestos.

Having said that, it doesn't look like any asbestos product I have ever seen.

If I came upon that sort of thing on a wall I would tend to think cement render or plaster, what is the red/pink material, is that the brick and is that timber at the bottom of the picture?

Thanks for the response footprints, yes that is the guts of the house itself - the brick work, the picture came out a little bit funny.

Do you think this would be from when the house was originally built or added in somewhere down the line? Any idea what those white bits could be? The greyish stuff you see is the plaster on the brick from where the stuff has eroded.

Though, I haven't faced any lung issues in the whole ten years and three of those years I was in that room playing on the computer. I'll be getting a test at some point soon.

cheeers once again

 

[footprints]

I would think the white bits are just white aggregate mixed in, there would be no point in adding chips of asbestos to a render.
Asbestos is added for one of two reasons fireproofing, so a few tiny bits will make no difference to the fire resistance you need a high content to have any effect and it was used for strengthening, to bind material like cement together again a few bits thrown in randomly are no use.
Asbestos was used a bit like the strands of fibre in glass fibre construction to bind the cement together, the strands (if you can see them) are rather like glass fibre, but as a rule they are invisible to the eye if mixed in an insulating plaster. Ever watched a film about old ships or submarine engine rooms with large white pipes running everywhere? that is usually asbestos plaster and very powdery if disturbed, not like you have.
A visit to site to test for asbestos will be about £100 -£130 or you can take a sample yourself and get it tested for £25 - £45 a sample, don't pick one out of the blue though look here to choose or check out a contractor.

http://www.arca.org.uk/

 

[Jackitate]

I would think the white bits are just white aggregate mixed in, there would be no point in adding chips of asbestos to a render.
Asbestos is added for one of two reasons fireproofing, so a few tiny bits will make no difference to the fire resistance you need a high content to have any effect and it was used for strengthening, to bind material like cement together again a few bits thrown in randomly are no use.
Asbestos was used a bit like the strands of fibre in glass fibre construction to bind the cement together, the strands (if you can see them) are rather like glass fibre, but as a rule they are invisible to the eye if mixed in an insulating plaster. Ever watched a film about old ships or submarine engine rooms with large white pipes running everywhere? that is usually asbestos plaster and very powdery if disturbed, not like you have.
A visit to site to test for asbestos will be about £100 -£130 or you can take a sample yourself and get it tested for £25 - £45 a sample, don't pick one out of the blue though look here to choose or check out a contractor.

http://www.arca.org.uk/

Cheers buddy I appreciate it very much. Brings some calm at least! I will get a test as soon as possible.

Regarding the actual hole problem, I've had someone tell me it's lime plaster,ash, clinker,sand & aggregate mix. I'm your usual household lay person with minimal practical knowledge you see, so, are you able to see where this person is coming from or do you stick by the cement idea?

I'll have to have a look online for those videos but compared to other ACM plasters this one seems completely different, less powdery and more compact.

Better yet, I haven't been able to find any hairs, animal or asbestos related though they may be there.

 

[footprints]

Can be plaster or cement (some old plasters are so rock hard it's hard to tell) old plaster particularly on lathe and plaster had animal hair in them, they can be very dusty pulling them out.
As a rule you repair like with like, lime plaster ideally should be repaired with the same stuff, but it is hard to get small quantities and frankly for a little patching job like that I wouldn't worry, just use a modern patching plaster, I bet if you stripped the paper off you would find patches of all sorts Polyfilla, Tetrion, plaster of Paris and whatever else came to hand.

 

[Steven Prentice]

a 1909 house was a bit before asbestos was widely used (1940s ishto mid 80s) so if it is original then it has a better chance of being OK.

 

[Deleted member 174758]

a 1909 house was a bit before asbestos was widely used (1940s ishto mid 80s) so if it is original then it has a better chance of being OK.

Not wishing to rain on your parade, but Turners (later Turner & Newall) avctually started weaving asbestos cloth in Rochdale in 1879 and shortly before WWI they opened a cement asbestos plant on Trafford Park in Manchester (making corrugated asbestos sheeting, etc). So your time frame of 1940s and later starts more than 20 years too late. Your end date is interesting, too, as asbestos was used legally in construction until 1999 - and I've worked in ex-council properties constructed in the 1990s where there asbestos was found.

 

[Jackitate]

Not wishing to rain on your parade, but Turners (later Turner & Newall) avctually started weaving asbestos cloth in Rochdale in 1879 and shortly before WWI they opened a cement asbestos plant on Trafford Park in Manchester (making corrugated asbestos sheeting, etc). So your time frame of 1940s and later starts more than 20 years too late. Your end date is interesting, too, as asbestos was used legally in construction until 1999 - and I've worked in ex-council properties constructed in the 1990s where there asbestos was found.

Thank the heavens that this house was built in 1909. I ordered a kit so time will tell what is inside this material.

Any idea as to what constitutes this material?

 

[footprints]

Chances are it is made from local sand / aggregate so unless you happen to live in Asbestos, yes a real town in Quebec Canada, it will be pretty harmless
Do let us know how you get on and what you use in the end to patch it though.

 

[Jackitate]

Chances are it is made from local sand / aggregate so unless you happen to live in Asbestos, yes a real town in Quebec Canada, it will be pretty harmless
Do let us know how you get on and what you use in the end to patch it though.

I'll post a picture of the finished job. Fear makes a man go crazy. Ha ha.

 

[Steven Prentice]

Not wishing to rain on your parade, but Turners (later Turner & Newall) avctually started weaving asbestos cloth in Rochdale in 1879 and shortly before WWI they opened a cement asbestos plant on Trafford Park in Manchester (making corrugated asbestos sheeting, etc). So your time frame of 1940s and later starts more than 20 years too late. Your end date is interesting, too, as asbestos was used legally in construction until 1999 - and I've worked in ex-council properties constructed in the 1990s where there asbestos was found.

The important words I used was 'widely used'. I am not denying the existence of asbestos in plaster before then or after the mid 1980s



Looking at the photo and as long as you dont duisturb the original plaster - if yuo have worries about it then encasing it in new plaster will be OK. If you have doubts and need to damage the plaster (such as drilling into the wall etc) then get it checked - better safe than sorry.

 

[Jackitate]

The important words I used was 'widely used'. I am not denying the existence of asbestos in plaster before then or after the mid 1980s



Looking at the photo and as long as you dont duisturb the original plaster - if yuo have worries about it then encasing it in new plaster will be OK. If you have doubts and need to damage the plaster (such as drilling into the wall etc) then get it checked - better safe than sorry.

Hey, I ordered a testing kit the other day so it will confirm whether or not there is anything in the plaster.

I have another question though. I know the chances of anyone here knowing is slim but worth a shot, any idea if this IS the original plaster? How do I find out apart from carbon testing lol

That hole you see was made by rocking on a chair so, it's been ripping down in its own - less explosive way. Was in that room every day for three years.

The test kit will be here tomorrow and the results with me on Monday. I made that hole about 10 years ago in what is known as the computer room, I would have been inhaling fibres all day long every time I rocked back. It's been in the open for a good 10 years, so everyone else is at risk too. Isn't too good if it comes back positive but hey ho no point worrying.

Should have listened when they told us to not rock on chairs in primary school! Ha ha ha.

However, no lung issues as of yet so should be OK. Whatever happens, happens either way.

Gonna get some old lime mix soon after testing

 

[Deleted member 174758]

The important words I used was 'widely used'. I am not denying the existence of asbestos in plaster before then or after the mid 1980s

Asbestos products were widely used in council and colliery houses in the 1920s (there are thousands of them in this region alone which is why we still need surveys and testing done before we carry out major works), as well as schools, hospitals, factories, shops, etc. It is also commonly found behind radiators, in airing cupboards, in loft spaces, beneath and even inside floor tiles from before WWI (1914). It was the wonder material of the early 20th century and was often "retro fitted" when other works were undertaken. I'd say that meets your definition of "widely used" - and is very much prior to 1940

Thiry off years ago we used to fire board with Asbestolux and at the end of the day we went home covered in white powder. Maybe I should be the one who's worried?

You are right in saying that the best policy is not to disturb, but to encapsulate