Who is liable?

[JT101]

Hi all

I started work for a small building company a little over a year ago now. After only a few months with the company, I was thrown in at the deep end and given a site to manage.

All the guys onsite including myself are either self employed or agency.

The guys who are self employed, are almost like employees in the sense that they have worked continuously for the company for several years. The agency staff are all new.

This is the first time I have ever been self employed. I am very much used to working for a company, signing forms, doing things officially and the company paying my tax for me.

There are two aspects of liability - from other workers, and from the customer.

The company director claims that the company has public liability. The contract certainly is between the customer and the company. I have never signed anything. Infact, the only paperwork I have ever filled in is my invoice slip every week (of course I am registered CIS though)

I feel very exposed. I just want some hard confirmation, that were anything to go wrong affecting workers or the custmer, that I am not liable. All I have is the directors word.

I feel respoinsible of course because I am running the site.

Anyone with any legal knowledge have any ideas?

Many thanks

 

[skotl]

The key point is that from the customer's perspective, they are contracting the company, so their expectation of liability rests with that company.

However, depending on the contract that *you* have with the company, you may be liable if you personally screw up. To be honest, as you are self employed then you should look at getting liability insurance as any mistake you make could expose you to considerable expense.

So it's probably not whether the director is telling the truth or not re his insurance but how exposed you are if the company comes after you for a mistake.

 

[Johnmelad]

Sounds to me as if neither yourself nor some of the people working on this site are actually self employed.

 

[nickjb]

Sounds to me as if neither yourself nor some of the people working on this site are actually self employed.

I would echo that. There are tax implications. Also an employer who is a bit sketchy with the tax man may have the same attitude to insurance.

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/working/intro/empstatus.htm

http://www.theguardian.com/business...itch-saves-construction-industry-millions-tax

 

[FiremanT]

The key point is that from the customer's perspective, they are contracting the company, so their expectation of liability rests with that company.

However, depending on the contract that *you* have with the company, you may be liable if you personally screw up. To be honest, as you are self employed then you should look at getting liability insurance as any mistake you make could expose you to considerable expense.

So it's probably not whether the director is telling the truth or not re his insurance but how exposed you are if the company comes after you for a mistake.

The "company" may not chase you, but THERE insurers may. For a couple of hundred a year, is it worth not being covered?

 

[JT101]

I couldn't agree more.

I went to see a local insurance company who used to do liability insurance for my dad as a tradesman. But she wanted to know if I was employed or self employed.

I assumed I was self employed, but then I went to the HMRC site about being employed or self employed, and it took me through a process which at the end couldn't determine which I was. The determining factors also seem to point to me being employed.

It then asks me to call one of two telephone numbers. One doesn't work, and the other no-one answers.

And incidentally I don't have any kind of contract. I never signed anything. Was just told to turn up to work.

 

[chirpychippy]

Have you registered as self employed with HMRC, I doubt you have, you don't necessarily get a contract of employment from an employer, contracts can be verbal only. Do you get a payslip every week or do you invoice with your UTR number which is how your tax is taken when your subbing to a contractor. Do you pay national insurance through direct debit or is it taken in your payslip.

If your employed you don't need liability insurance if your SE you definately do, if your not sure get it anyway. Then your covered regardless.

 

[gregers]

thought it was law that a certificate of insurance was meant to be put up in any office/hut or place of work.

 

[FiremanT]

thought it was law that a certificate of insurance was meant to be put up in any office/hut or place of work.

If you mean employers liability insurance, then yes, it must be displayed.

There is no law that says anyone has to have public liability - but it is stupid not to.

 

[Boilerman2]

I would also be very concerned about the implications of the CDM regulations - you might find that you are very liable under these regs!!

 

[thelockman999]

my brother in law was working for a guy for years on a self employed basis along with a few other lads but somewhere along the line the authorities got involved and he had to make them full employees of the company. I think he was paying them weekly (half in a cheque and half in cash). It was probably more down to HMRC wanting more accountability and transparency with their earnings.

I think if you're employed by a third party you'll still be covered by their insurance whilst on their premises, if they're insured themselves that is.

 

[IJWS15]

CIS introduces several issues with "subcontractors"

You could be a bona-fide contractor and require your own public liability insurance.

You could be an employee working under the building companies "direction and control" in which case you are covered by their PL insurance.

As they have not given you an employment contract it could be the first (It is a legal requirement to give an employee a written contract).

Suggest you speak to CAB or a solicitor to find out which case applies.

Note: Any construction contractor is covered by CIS rules but doesn't necessarily get tax deducted at source - we do and our turnover is over £100m a year.