why do people support Reform when they have no idea of their policies

[Notch7]

Anyway, I'll take my chances with Reform UK thanks.
Things [literally] couldn't get any worse.

Reform are literally just Tories

if you want to know how things will be look at 2010 -2024 and imagine a lot worse

 

[morqthana]

An abundance of workers allows you to save, whereas an abundance of shirkers will render you bankrupt, at which point you become vulnerable.
Agreed?

The problem with trying to discuss it with people like you is your belief that benefit claimant Ξ shirker, which is wrong, and leads you to favour heartlessly cruel policies.

 

[Highway Man]

It is exactly the same as obesity, the more you put in your mouth the fatter you will become. If you want to lose weight then you need to have a healthy balanced diet along side excersise. Reform will be that diet.

 

[Ollyfp]

It is exactly the same as obesity, the more you put in your mouth the fatter you will become. If you want to lose weight then you need to have a healthy balanced diet along side excersise. Reform will be that diet.

Well that's just made me hungry. Lol

 

[Notch7]

I'm going to stick my neck out here and guess that, like Rachel Reeves, you're not a professional economist.
Basically, all economies (personal, household, national, etc) are based on the same principle; i.e. You need to have more incomings than outgoings, or said economy goes tits up.
An abundance of workers allows you to save, whereas an abundance of shirkers will render you bankrupt, at which point you become vulnerable.
Agreed?

how many people on benefits are shirkers in your opinion?

An abundance of workers allows you to save, whereas an abundance of shirkers will render you bankrupt, at which point you become vulnerable.
Agreed?

flogging everything off to private equity is why this country is in the sh1t

but hey you go and blame poor people eh

Basically, all economies (personal, household, national, etc) are based on the same principle; i.e. You need to have more incomings than outgoings, or said economy goes tits up.

ah so you think savings can be made

maybe we should just cull those pesky pensioners, they keep costing a fortune by living longer eh

 

[Ollyfp]

The problem with trying to discuss it with people like you is your belief that benefit claimant Ξ shirker, which is wrong, and leads you to favour heartlessly cruel policies.

You got me wrong (again).
E.g.1: One leg = genuine benefit claimant.
E.g.2: Bit nervous, late night gamer, work-shy = get a job mate.

 

[morqthana]

The problem you have there is that E.g.2 is a fabrication of the right-wing populist press and blinkered right-wing echo chambers. There are far too many genuine stories of disabled people failing to get the help they need for it to be possible to pass all the assessments by being "a bit nervous".

 

[Ollyfp]

how many people on benefits are shirkers in your opinion?

I know someone (my wife actually) who tries her best to get people into work. She loves her job.
She feels sad when promising young individuals secure PIP and then give up on real life.
It's too easy.

 

[Highway Man]

Unfortunately for many, the dole is a career move. Things need to change.

 

[Ollyfp]

The problem you have there is that E.g.2 is a fabrication of the right-wing populist press and blinkered right-wing echo chambers. There are far too many genuine stories of disabled people failing to get the help they need for it to be possible to pass all the assessments by being "a bit nervous".

Don't you think that we all had the propensity to be E.g.2 in our teens? That's where the tough love comes in. No tough love = snowflake.

 

[Ollyfp]

Don't you think that we all had the propensity to be E.g.2 in our teens? That's where the tough love comes in. No tough love = snowflake.

We like equations. Lol

 

[Ollyfp]

Unfortunately for many, the dole is a career move. Things need to change.

I like the sound of these modern careers. I'm going be a pronoun shifting super grifter in my next life. It's going to be hard work of course, but I'm sure I'll be able to feel offended at least twice a month in the name of PIP... and live with my [probably] useless parents until I'm 50. Yeah, I can do this!

 

[morqthana]

Don't you think that we all had the propensity to be E.g.2 in our teens?

That's not the same as saying that people can successfully pass all the assessments for disability benefits by being "a bit nervous". There are far too many genuine stories of disabled people failing to get the help they need for that to be possible. Or, even if it were possible for someone really skilled to pull it off, far too rare to use as a justification for cruel and heartless "crackdowns" on all disabled people.

Disabled people want to live a full life. Instead, we’re forced to scrap over our right to food and a wash | Frances Ryan

Britain’s political and media class advocate policies that leave disabled people hungry and dirty. Why are we expected to settle for this, asks Guardian columnist Frances Ryan

www.theguardian.com

A reader with a terminal illness emailed in despair. What she told me should shock us all | Frances Ryan

Rosy is unable to move, breathe or eat unassisted. Yet NHS assessors think it’s fine to leave her alone for hours at a time, says Guardian columnist Frances Ryan

www.theguardian.com

I’ve been told to wait three years for a wheelchair that ‘can go outside’ | Frances Ryan

It is surely a societal failure when 5,000 children wait months for a chair, says the Guardian columnist Frances Ryan

www.theguardian.com

‘I was a citizen, now I’m nothing’: disabled readers on life under austerity | Frances Ryan and John Domokos

Lying on the floor for hours awaiting help, unable to afford both incontinence pants and food … This is the reality of disability cuts for Stephen, Alex and Elli

www.theguardian.com

What kind of country have we become? Try asking a disabled person | Frances Ryan

The progress of the 1990s has been brutally rolled back. For those with a disability, there is no meaningful safety net any more, says the Guardian columnist Frances Ryan

www.theguardian.com

 

[Ollyfp]

There are far too many genuine stories of disabled people failing to get the help they need for that to be possible

But everyone can speak anecdotally about someone they know who is claiming benefits when they could be working, but we don't tend to 'shop' our family members or friends.
When I was teaching, I got to know a gentleman who walked on crutches to pick his son up every day. I admired him for that. Then, one day I had to return to the school late at night and I saw him SPRINTING with both crutches tucked under his arm.
So, we know they're out there, don't we.

 

[morqthana]

But everyone can speak anecdotally about someone they know who is claiming benefits when they could be working,

And isn't it strange how many of these everyones have an incredibly strong propensity to be right wing, socially illiberal, and imbued with a number of other prejudices.

So, we know they're out there, don't we.

No, we don't, except maybe in numbers so small that punishing all the others would be disgustingly disproportionate.