Widening the fireplace. No lintel. Hollow side + Pics

[HappyAmatuer]

Hi all,
I need to widen my fireplace by about 10 more cm to take an insert stove.

Head on:

As you can see there is no obvious lintel.

The left side seems fairly 'solid', I can't punch through:

So that side is 'real'

Now this is what stumps me, the right side is hollow: See below.

Looking through that rectangular hole towards the front you can seen a single row of bricks maybe 1.5 to 2 bricks long: See below.

Looking towards the back you can see the wall with a part layer of extra brick. And what looks to be old gas/water pipes from a time the house may have had one of those ubiquitous 'council' type gas fires with a back boiler:

The question:
Can I just knock out that single row of bricks on the right side to widen the opening? Or is that load bearing? Has anyone seen this sort of thing before? Why no lintel?

Extra info
House is an early 70's - late 60's detached 3 bed. There is no chimney brickwork visible on the outside wall. There is a small breast <2ft across coming though the bedroom above.

Heres a view up the opening if that will help any of the experts: See below

Thanks, suggestions welcome.

 

[ree]

You will have to expose sideways, back to brickwork or studding or whatever the backing is on both sides of the opening by say 150mm, (keep away from the angle bead corners.
This will enable us to see what kind of support you might have for a lintel.

Do not knock anything out on the right side, merely expose.

Do you have the Mfr's dimensions for the new opening?

Suggest that you also remove the in place appliance, the skirting at the front of the c/breast, and the rubble.

Why have you knocked a hole in the main wall to the left of the c/breast?

The copper pipes might be flow and return, from an old back boiler, going up to a cylinder location on the first floor? Dont touch them for now.

A Gas pipe would, typically, come from a different direction - you would do well to locate it.

Do you see a chimney stack or venting terminal on the roof?

Can you please adjust your focus for clearer pics?

 

[HappyAmatuer]

You will have to expose sideways, back to brickwork or studding or whatever the backing is on both sides of the opening by say 150mm, (keep away from the angle bead corners.
This will enable us to see what kind of support you might have for a lintel.

Do not knock anything out on the right side, merely expose.

Do you have the Mfr's dimensions for the new opening?

Suggest that you also remove the in place appliance, the skirting at the front of the c/breast, and the rubble.

Why have you knocked a hole in the main wall to the left of the c/breast?

The copper pipes might be flow and return, from an old back boiler, going up to a cylinder location on the first floor? Dont touch them for now.

A Gas pipe would, typically, come from a different direction - you would do well to locate it.

Do you see a chimney stack or venting terminal on the roof?

Can you please adjust your focus for clearer pics?

Done, but I wrecked those corners: See below

Here is the the right explored more with side skirting removed: See two below.

Here is the left side explored: see below

Seems to be brick all through


Is this ok or should I explore that Right hand side some more?

To answer the other questions:
That hole on the main wall was there before I took ownership. I think it was an air vent for the room. A requirement for that stove. Some satellite people used it as a feed through too.

I have hacked out all the upstairs legacy heating system including storage tanks/radiators that those water pipes may have lead too.


Thanks for the reply and suggestions.

P.s I tried a bit harder with lighting and focus, only have a Phone camera.

 

[ree]

The internal angle beads are irrelevant. Remove all the plaster and plaster board to within say 75mm of the outer angle beads, down to the hearth and up to the exposed bricks. And remove any plaster or plaster board (or chunks of adhesive) painted white inside the opening.

Do the same on the right hand cheek of the chimney breast where you've opened it up a little.

The general idea is that i have to see whats happening behind plaster etc before i can advise you about linteling.

Some of the above questions have not yet been answered.

I assume that you have a solid floor?

Lead pipework indicates an older property than the 60's.

A plumber would be necessary to ID whats what, active or redundant, with the pipework. You dont want stagnant dead legs of water, or a possible live gas line in the floor.
Plus the pipework and wiring in the right hand side should be sorted or cut out by a professional.

It looks as though, at an earlier date, the RH side was opened up to help install a fire/back boiler - perhaps? There should be a lintel above the opening, unless they've corbelled the flue brickwork out?

 

[HappyAmatuer]

It's about 10pm here. So I can't wake my neighbours with my hammer drill. Will do as you suggest tomorrow.

Yes solid floor.

No lead pipes.

The property is off the gas grid. Gas bottles have been used behind that wall to feed an upstairs boiler and I speculate to have feed a fireplace that may have been there a while ago.

There have likely been 2 systems in the house since construction. I ripped out the last one (pressurised combination heater with radiators + this stove) and before that there was a vented system probably using whatever was originally in this opening.

Is it normal to corbel out like that then leave a row of brick at the front just to get some gas/water in there? surely it would have been easier to emerge in the void behind the appliance rather than in the cheek?

Does this all compromise my ability to widen?

Is this expensive to sort out?


Thanks for your reply.

 

[ree]

So no gas, good. Why not release the cap on the pipe and drain off any water left in the pipe. Drain them both off if you can but be certain that you are not releasing a mains supply. Best to first shut off main stop cock.

Why it was done that way i dont know.

Its not a big deal, nor is it expensive. Roughly speaking, its simply in-fill bricking up and then making good, which you would have had to do anyway with the new appliance.

Neither, once you have some support, does it compromise your ability to widen.

 

[HappyAmatuer]

I don't quite get your last line " once you have some support, does it compromise your ability to widen."

could you clarify the meaning of that?

About widening. where would you go from here with no lintel visible?

Must there always be a lintel, I've got the feeling it's just a wall of bricks with a lazily hollowed out right cheek. I'm tempted just to lop out the 10cm width I need for the fire from that cheek.

 

[ree]

The sentence starts: "Neither," I'm quoting you in an above post.
Once you have some support you can widen.

However, its moot. Perhaps someone else will take you further. Having "feelings" about what you cant see, and "tempted" to do something that you dont know how to do, are no way to proceed in building work.

 

[HappyAmatuer]

Thats why am not going further, merely tempted. Point taken however.

Thanks for the pointers.

It would be quite helpful is you douse advise on what steps I may do now before calling a builder. Explore more or leave it and just call...