Wires & sparks

[starjayjames123]

what causes the positive wire to spark when u touch it against the nuetral or ground wire. shouldn't the electrons be happy to go back to ground, Or does it just spark because the wires were not making proper contact and the current jumps from positive to neutral? and what would happen if you were to connect them together with a conector and then on the switch? would the electrons happily go to ground or would they burn the house down ?

 

[bernardgreen]

The electrons are so desperate to get around the circuit to where then began the circuit that they will jump across small gaps, this agitates the atoms in the air and they give out light as their electrons jump down the energy levels in the atom.

It is not positive and neutral, as in AC voltages the polarity is changing 100 times a second.

If you dead short Live to Ground then a very high current will flow and the wires will get very hot, even white hot as in a lamp filament which is not a dead ( zero resistance ) short. In most cases the current through the dead short is high enough to melt the fuse before the cables get hot enough to set fire to the building before melting.

 

[Taylortwocities]

Everything you need to know is explained here

PS Is Michael Beans still doing his show at Leverick Bay?

 

[dhutch]

It is not positive and neutral, as in AC voltages the polarity is changing 100 times a second.

I assume that should read 'its not positive and negative' as it IS live and NEUTRAL....


Daniel

 

[bernardgreen]

I accept it was badly written.

 

[dhutch]

I accept it was badly written.

No worries.

Ultimatly the outcome is the same, if you bring two conductors at diffrent voltages (like 240v apart, ac or otherwise) together and try and make them the same voltage there will be a high current and it will try and jump over creating sparks.

Also badly written, but yes. Not good unless it was sparks you where after.


Daniel

 

[starjayjames123]

thanks for your responses but the video dosen't explain anything related to my topic, and the reason i used this thread is because forums usual hate when there are multiple threads asking the same question, but sorry.



now from what i understand the reason it would heat up the neutral or negative wire is because the electrons is still going through with its power or charge, and in a light bulb the light bulb would have used up the power first before sending the electrons to the neutral or negative wire. so what would be a simple mechanism or contraption i could make to use up the electrons charge before sending it to the neutral wire so that it would not heat up the wire or spark. from what i read the light bulb uses up the power by forcing the electrons through a very thin wire and after all that work they run out of energy or something like that, so what would be a simple contraption i could do to use up the electrons energy like the light bulb and then connect it to the neutral wire after my contraption so that i can see that it no longer heats up the wire. i could use a bulb as a loan but its already made and i don't know whats going on inside the bulb i would like some kind of home made contraption where i can see exactly whats going on. in other words a some home made load. and it dosen't have to be for house current, i could be for a battery. thanks

 

[Taylortwocities]

I'm lost, are you trying to create a perpetual energy machine?

If so, there's a snag in your thinking - its called the law of conservation of energy. This states that energy may neither be created nor destroyed.
So there won't be any "spare" to power your contraption..

 

[noweiire]

It is not positive and neutral, as in AC voltages the polarity is changing 100 times a second.

 

[starjayjames123]

no i'm just doing a simple test. to my understanding current comes from the red wire which is positive, goes through a load, which is a light bulb or the toaster and then leaves through the neutral or ground(usually the neutral)wire heading back to the power station and thus the circuit is complete. but if u try to do a circuit without a load(bulb or toaster) in-between red wire and black wire then you will end up with sparks or hot wire or tripped breaker. so for the circuit to work properly u must have some load in the circuit.

lets use those examples with the battery positive terminal which is then connected to the loads positive side, lets say in this case the load is a bulb, then you connect the loads negative side to the negative terminal of the battery, so now the circuit is complete. but if you were to remove the load all together or bypass it with a wire from the positive side (before the load) and connect it to the negative side, (after the load), u would end up with sparks of hot wires. so that means that something is happening inside of the load which allows the electrons after coming out of the negative side of the load to go back to the negative side of the battery without sparking, or making the wires hot. you understand now ?


just incase there are any misunderstanding about what the loads negative and positive sides are, since in our case the load is a bulb (lets say a screw bulb to be exact) and the source is a battery. then the positive terminal of the bulb is usually the black pointy underside and the negative terminal is usually the shiny side all around the base of the bulb


thanks for your replies thus far

 

[ban-all-sheds]

• http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=electrical+circuits+101
  
  
• http://kevinboone.net/electricity.html
  
  

 

[ban-all-sheds]

i would like some kind of home made contraption where i can see exactly whats going on.

It's very hard to see electrons.

 

[EFLImpudence]

Look at it the other way around.

Unless there is some resistance somewhere you will just have lightning.

You cannot have a circuit with no load or the circuit will be the load and heat will be produced.
With a small battery this is not a danger but with higher voltage, it is.

i would like some kind of home made contraption where i can see exactly whats going on.

Then do it with water.
Electricity is often likened to water.

A raging torrent can be controlled with something like a valve or dam to make it usable and safe - unless the dam bursts.

 

[starjayjames123]

obviously i didn't mean to see the electrons, do u take me for a fool, lol .i mean just something that would simulate what the bulb does to become a load, in other words i want to make an artificial load so when i make a circuit out of my artificial load i know that it will not spark or heat up the wires. to my understanding the light bulb becomes a load by forcing the current to pass through the thin filament and then the electrons leave the light bulb and go to negative terminal of the battery without a problem, so is there some demonstration online somewhere where i could simulate this same thing without the actual bulb.

if it is true that after the bulb forces the electrons through the filament they go back to the negative terminal without a problem can't i use a little wire or something like that to simulate a filament and use it as my load in the circuit instead.

all this is part of a trying to gain a deeper understanding of what makes a load, a load. what is it about passing through the load (the bulb or a motor, etc ) that now lets the electrons go back to the negative side of the battery without heating up the wire now. if the circuit has no load it would just heat up the wire and spark, but if the circuit has a load it would not heat up the wire to the negative terminal.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

You can't use a piece of wire instead of a bulb, as that would create a short circuit.

You could use a long piece of wire, say about 1km of 1.5mm² copper, connect it to the battery and see absolutely nothing happen.
How would that help?

If you wanted to simulate a bulb to connect to your battery you could use a 12Ω resistor, but I really can't see what difference that would make to the fact that you don't understand what's going on. All that would change would be that you'd get no light out of the resistor, just a bit of heat. How would that help?

An online simulation without a bulb? That would be a drawing or a photo of a battery with a resistor across it.
How would that help?

You could use a small electric motor, and what you'd get out would be the motor turning.
How would that help?

The bulb doesn't do anything to become a load, it is one because it has resistance. The bulb does not force electrons through the filament, the battery does.

Please take the list above, add this one to it:

http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=electricity+(101+OR+basics+OR+fundamentals+OR+introduction)

and start reading - you really aren't going to get anywhere with your current (no pun intended) approach.