Wiring up PIR to outdoor lights with timer

[mikazza]

I have outdoor recessed downlights installed currently running off a timer and i'm looking to add a PIR sensor to them so when the lights go off on the timer at night, the PIR is still active and the lights will come on should there be any movement in the garden.

I've attached a picture of how the lights are installed and have added a switch and PIR to the drawing, would be grateful if anybody could have a look and let me know if this is how you wire up the PIR to the system.

Thanks

 

[JohnW2]

I've attached a picture of how the lights are installed and have added a switch and PIR to the drawing, would be grateful if anybody could have a look and let me know if this is how you wire up the PIR to the system.

That looks fine to me (and is similar to some arrangements I have in my house). The PIR will obvioulsy remain 'powered up' during the day if its switch is 'on', but I imagine that you will use a PIR which has an inbuilt light sensor which 'disables' its operation during daylight.

The switch you have added is not really essential, unless you want to be able to manually disable the PIR (even at night). Was there a reason?

Do you not have a means (or need) to manually switch on (and/or off) the outside lights?

Kind Regards, John

 

[mikazza]

Thanks for your quick response, the timer I have is a bit of a faff to turn the lights on outside permanently, I plan on getting a PIR which has the light sensor and also one that when you double flick the switch it turns the outside light on

 

[JohnW2]

Thanks for your quick response, the timer I have is a bit of a faff to turn the lights on outside permanently, I plan on getting a PIR which has the light sensor and also one that when you double flick the switch it turns the outside light on

Fair enough. That would leave just manually turning off the lights when the timer had turned them on (should you ever wish to) - can that be done (if required) fairly easily with the timer?

Is that junction box permanently live? If so, I would suggest that you consider installing a double-pole switch 'upstream' of it (i.e. in the feed to it), to enable you to completely isolate the whole lot. Outside lights have a habit of suffering from water ingress and if you cannot isolate them (and, sometimes, even if you have a single-pole switch), water in the lights can trip an RCD and hence prevent use of all sorts of lights and other things in the house until the problem is rectified.

Kind Regards, John

 

[mikazza]

Thats a great idea with the switch, yes the junction box is permanently live and it would be very easy to stick a double pole switch before it.

I don't imagine having to switch the lights off when on the timer but there is a setting on the timer to do that.

Thanks for your help.

 

[JohnW2]

Thanks for your help.

You're welcome.

Kind Regards, John

 

[Doggit]

Not sure, but either I've misinterpreted what you're trying to do, or you've got this the wrong way round. Lights would normally be on when it's dark, but a PIR will only activate them when someone comes near, so in many ways, you either want them on permanently, or only PIR activated when it's dark.

 

[JohnW2]

Not sure, but either I've misinterpreted what you're trying to do, or you've got this the wrong way round. Lights would normally be on when it's dark, but a PIR will only activate them when someone comes near, so in many ways, you either want them on permanently, or only PIR activated when it's dark.

As I understand it, the time switch switches the light on for a period during the evening, and the OP wants the PIR to put them on if they detect movement during the period of darkness after the timer has switched them off. During daylight, the PIR would be disabled by it's own light sensing.

What he is proposing will achieve all that.

Kind Regards, John

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Thanks for your quick response, the timer I have is a bit of a faff to turn the lights on outside permanently

Put a switch in parallel with the timer, or a 2-way switch after it to allow you to select between timer and permanent.

 

[JohnW2]

Put a switch in parallel with the timer, or a 2-way switch after it to allow you to select between timer and permanent.

I don't think that's functionality that the OP wants/needs - he was merely responding to my question as to whether he had a means of turning the lights on 'permanently' (i.e. even when not on by virtue of timer or PIR), should he so wish.

Kind Regards, John

 

[ban-all-sheds]

He complained that because of the timer it's a faff to override it and turn the lights on permanently if he wants, so his solution to that is to use the type of PIR which goes permanently on after a quick on-off-on of its supply.

My suggestions are both perfectly good alternative ways to answer that need, and do not rely on always having a working PIR with that functionality.

 

[JohnW2]

He complained that because of the timer it's a faff to override it and turn the lights on permanently if he wants, so his solution to that is to use the type of PIR which goes permanently on after a quick on-off-on of its supply.
My suggestions are both perfectly good alternative ways to answer that need, and do not rely on always having a working PIR with that functionality.

They are, even though they involve yet another switch. Maybe I misunderstood, but I believed that, when he 'complained', the OP was responding to my question, rather than saying that he actually wanted to be able to turn the lights on permanently more easily than he can now.

Whatever, he has now been made aware of most of the options.

Kind Regards, John

 

[ban-all-sheds]

They are, even though they involve yet another switch.

No - if he has one as I described he'd not need the one before the PIR. And he'd not need for the PIR to always work as it should to be able to get the lights on permanently

Maybe I misunderstood, but I believed that, when he 'complained', the OP was responding to my question, rather than saying that he actually wanted to be able to turn the lights on permanently more easily than he can now.

Maybe I misunderstood, but I believed that, when he said "the timer I have is a bit of a faff to turn the lights on outside permanently, I plan on getting a PIR ... that when you double flick the switch it turns the outside light on" he was saying that one of the requirements he actually has is to be able to turn the lights on permanently more easily than he can now.

Whatever, he has now been made aware of most of the options.

Indeed.

 

[JohnW2]

Maybe I misunderstood, but I believed that, when he said .... he was saying that one of the requirements he actually has is to be able to turn the lights on permanently more easily than he can now.

Only he knows what he "was saying", but I took those comments to be simply a response to my question ...

Do you not have a means (or need) to manually switch on (and/or off) the outside lights?

... since he had not mentioned those other things as 'requirements' in his OP. However, either of us may have misunderstood.

Kind Regards, John

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I do not believe that there is a single person in the world who can say anything which you will not seek to wilfully misinterpret in order to start an argument.

The switch you have added is not really essential, unless you want to be able to manually disable the PIR (even at night). Was there a reason?

Do you not have a means (or need) to manually switch on (and/or off) the outside lights?

Thanks for your quick response, the timer I have is a bit of a faff to turn the lights on outside permanently, I plan on getting a PIR which has the light sensor and also one that when you double flick the switch it turns the outside light on

Do you see?

THAT

IS

WHY

HE

HAS

ADDED

THAT

SWITCH.


THAT

IS

THE

REASON.


THAT

GIVES

HIM

THE

MEANS

TO

MANUALLY

SWITCH

ON

THE

OUTSIDE

LIGHTS.