Wood Burning Boiler Stove - plumbing of...

[Norcon]

If however they are not and you have a large high attic, you could install a loop system; With a 28mm Flow rising from the stove into the attic, vented at that point, run across the attic, with the high point at the vent at the chimney side of the house & drop down to the heat bank.

The 28mm Return would drop from the heat bank to below the ground floor & run under the floor & rise/connect to the stove.

The loop will circulate well due to the vertital rise from the stove to the attic.......Simples!!

I always thought there had to be a rise in all areas? Am I wrong?

Dunsley call this an "Up and Under" circuit. They say it encourages back circulation, has low circulating pressure due to the dip in the return pipe and needs a "Colemans Patt" check valve fitted.
It also needs an accelerator circuit!
But perhaps RB knows different.

It would also be very difficult to install in an existing property IMO.
The layout to my old solid fuel system is similar to the OP's.
Except my joists run the right way.
My pipes are channeled into the wall incidentally and exit the right hand side of the chimney breast.
A built in cupboard hides pipe work , pump, controls etc.

I'd be happy to have chrome coated copper pipe (surface fitted) up the wall with chrome clips. But then I appreciate nicely fitted pipework that is on display.
Might not be everyones cup of tea of course.


The heat leak radiator ((1.2 kw)( Boiler output- 8.4kw/water)) in relation to the schematic would be the right hand side of bedroom 2 , T'd off 28mm.

 

[mdurkin]

ok. Maybe it's not so bad. The loft route might be possible, even if difficult, and although it involves chasing the chimney breast on 2 levels to hide the pipes, I'm fitting a wardrobe upstairs, so just downstairs to patch up. Can I chase 28mm pipes into the chimney all the way up without weakening it? They're pretty big pipes. Thinking about it that will be a pretty big hole to channel out all the way up.
I guess now I need to check out what load I can put on those joists for the heat store. If they can't take it, I need another option. Would be a shame as i really fancy the heat store...

 

[tamz]

Just run the pipes up the side of the chimney breast and box them in. Put a box at the opposite side too if you want to even things up.

 

[RichardBothwell]

But perhaps RB knows different.......................35 years in the trade as a time-served Plumber & Heating Engineer, 30 years as a Master Plumber says I do...........

 

[RichardBothwell]

Have a swatch at this;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hVyKuk05OCY

 

[Onetap]

Dunsley call this an "Up and Under" circuit. They say it encourages back circulation, has low circulating pressure due to the dip in the return pipe and needs a "Colemans Patt" check valve fitted.
It also needs an accelerator circuit!
But perhaps RB knows different.

I had to look that up. The recommendations are here;

http://www.dunsleyheat.co.uk/nuetralizer.doc

They show the flow pipe going 'up & over' the boiler and their neutraliser and the return going 'down & under'. I don't think that was the arrangement proposed by the OP, but haven't time to re-read; apologies if I'm mistaken.

 

[Nige F]

Up+Under...come back Eddie Waring An accelerator can be made with an Injector tee to speed the circulation when the pump is running . Though it might then take the heat away from the store through the grav. coil. Well, the one I did in the 70`s did But it, and I soon recovered

 

[RichardBothwell]

What I proposed was a loop system, not unlike their(Dunsley) 'Up & Over' system, but I can assure you it will work & you'll not need any non-return valves.

Look at the youtuibe vid & the resistance of all that pipe work!! As I said, it's all about the vertical rise & ensuring you can get the F&E tank as high as possable.

As an Apprentice Plumber, we installed complete gravity heating systems, no leccy, no circulators. The old boys I served my time with kindly passed on the 'dark art'.

 

[tamz]

As RB says simples

 

[Norcon]

As RB says simples

Thats puller from Screwfix.
Thought he was banned?

The 28mm Return would drop from the heat bank to below the ground floor & run under the floor & rise/connect to the stove.

That means ripping the floor up.

 

[Biggles..]

When dick changed career and did a crash course,maybe they forgot about some of the practicle aspects of the industry.

 

[tamz]

In Scotland the majority of houses have timber floors so putting a 28mm pipe under it hardly involves ripping it up. If it was a solid floor obviously it wouldn't be done.

 

[Bellsquarry]

I have exactly the same layout as is described in this original post (longer vertical runs perhaps) and am really interested in the replies.

What I don’t quite follow from RB’s post is whether you intend the return to take the same route as the flow, ie back over the attic, albeit not rising as high as the vent point? Or are, as I think you are maybe saying the return can take just about any old route, so long as it is downwards all the way?

It has been suggested that I should fit some sort of auxiliary cylinder in the loft and get that to receive the hot flow. When it reaches temp it can be pumped to the main thermal store. This seems unnecessarily complicated to me. Any thoughts on the merits of this?

Heat engineers experienced with these systems seems really hard. Are you still working RB and “tamz”...?

A related question. I am looking at a 12Kw stove with 5kw to room, and the balance of 7kw to the boiler. I have a 300litre thermal store. Do you think I would need a relief radiator in the system as well or would the thermal store be big enough?

Also any thoughts on handling building control here inthe central belt of Scotland? What are they going to be concentrating on?

So many questions: would RB also add in a pump/injector on top of the gravit flow? The suggestion is that as long as the gravity can cope with 25-30% of the flow then it is OK to pump the rest.

Mike

 

[Bellsquarry]

The above should read heating engineers...are hard [to find] !

M

 

[Biggles..]

try screwfix forum under DickPuller if you need RB