Woodburner/Heat store - do I need a coil fitted?

[picitup]

Hi looks like I've sparked a bit of a debate!

I'll try and answer all the questions:

1) The heat store is an ordinary cyclinder with no coils and is heavily insulated.
2) I've included a better diagram showing the DHW indirect cylinder connected to the neutraliser.
3) The store was added because of the location of the stove and airing cupboard being about 15 feet away.
There was no method of ensuring thermosyphoning would work along the only possible run.
4) I think..... The way the neutraliser works in our setup is.....

All heated water water (gas boiler and wood burner) goes to the neutraliser. All heat requirements come from the
neutraliser eg DHW coil and CH water is pumped from there. This is the full knowledge of a proven
non-plumber!


any road up, I got some X200 and have added it to the system as advised by Tony. The fire's alight and the CH is off and isolated. What I really hope is that the fire will run cooler and not kettle. I guess I need to watch for a few days and see what happens. Fingers crossed!

[code:1]............------------------------------------------------------|
............|.....................................................|
........|---|---|F................................................|
....|---|.......|-------------------------------|.............|-------|
....|...|.TANK..|R..............................|.............|.......|
....|...|.Store.|---------------------------|...|.............|..FE...|
|-------|_______|...........................|...|.............|_______|
|...|.......................................|...|.............
|...|....Loft...............................|...|
|...|.......................................|...|
|...|.......................................|...|
|...|.......................................|...|
|...|.......................................|.|----|
|...|.......................................|.|.O..|..Heat.Store.Pump......|------------|
|...|.......................................|.|____|.......................|............|
|...|F......................................|...|..........................|.Gas.Boiler.|
|...|---|-------|..........................|------------|..................|............|
|R......|.......|..........................|............|..................|____________|
|-------|.......|...............-----------|.Neutraliser|.....................|..|..............................
........|.Stove.|...............|..........|............|---------------------|..|
........|_______|...............|.....|----|____________|________________________|
................................|.....|........|..|.................................
.......Dining.Room..............|.....|........|..|....Airing.Cupboard
................................|.....|........|..|
................................|.....|........|..|
................................|.....|........|..|
.............................|--|-----|---|....|..|.........|------------|
.............................|..|.....|...|....|..|---------|............|
.............................|..\/\/\/....|....|____________|.RADS.......|
.............................|.DHW.TANK...|.................|............|
.............................|____________|.................|____________|
...........................................[/code:1]

 

[picitup]

Just a quick update. I ran the fire all evening and then part into the night on a low setting. It still kettled soon after refuel, but it's only a day and I know I need to be patient.

I make up a fire every morning to catch the DHW after showers and every other evening to catch the same after baths, so fingers crossed and we'll wait and see.

I'll report back and let you all know if there's a change.

Onto the wiring next while this is cooking. After chasing an intermittent banging CH pump for months, I discovered the installer has somehwere connected the DHW demand to the CH demand. The upshot of this is that the CH pump is on whenever the DHW calls for heat. It spends long portions of the day circulating water round the neutraliser with the zone valves closed. When my mother-in-law callsfor heat, the CH pump is already running, rather than being turned on by the zone switch. This is worsened by the fact that the CH pump no longer runs on position 1, so it's switched to 2. Deep joy.

The wiring is a right old rat's nest and is a hangover from the orginal gas system installed in 2000. I guess I need to map it all out and get it re-wired at some point.

Onward and upward....

Steve

 

[Agile]

You have not said how much x200 you added!

It needs at least one bottle per 100 litres but preferably more!

It will usually take 5-7 days to make any noticeable difference. Its pretty slow and mild but then it wont harm you system either. It can be left in the system.

If it doesn't work then you need to use sulphamic acid or HCl on the boiler only but thats labour intensive and messy but could be done when the boiler connections are changed.

Tony

 

[picitup]

Hi Tony

I added a single litre bottle. Although we have 27 rads, 20 are AA (us upstairs) which haven't been turned on for weeks, and 7 are downstairs. So the 1 litre will be covering the woodburner, heat store and 7 rads.

Thanks for your advice on the next step. I'll check it over the next week and report back.

Cheers

Steve

 

[Agile]

You have not mentioned the volume of the store but together with the volume of the boiler and pipes it must surely be more than 100 li ???

Its always better to be stronger but the maximum dilution is one can for 100 li and I would guess that at least three cans will be needed!

Tony




Jewish joke!

Jew in front of the Ark: Please God help me to win the lottery!

God: Well yes my son but at least meet me halfway!

Jew: Well Lord what should I do?

God: Buy a ticket !

 

[picitup]

Hi All

apoligies for the delay, but I've been doing some tests and think I've found the cause of the problem.

The user guide for the Dunsley Yorkshire says when you refuel, push and hot coals to the back and the add more wood. A diagram of the stove is here:

http://www.dunsleyheat.co.uk/yorkshirestoveCH.htm

The stove is a 'downburn' type. The air comes in at the top, through the flames and out a small horizontal slot at the back/bottom of the stove then round and up the afterburn chamber to heat the back boiler.

The problem is that if you push the coals to the back, it blocks air flow and you create a sealed firebox. Back boiler water gets no hotter, the firebox heats up and the back boiler stat closes the air flow, backing the fire off.

Now you have a really hot fire, cool back boiler, and then when you refuel, it takes off like a rocket.

I've welded a small paddle on the end of the poker and now pull the ashes/coals away from the air path on every refuel and it's much better behaved.

The heat store heats up quicker, the wood is always burning and contributing to the heat store and there is no 'static mode' where the fire is full of hot coals, banging out loads of heat to the room and little to the back boiler.

I've had a 'wood saver' thermometer on the top plate of the stove for some time. The temperature was normally just below 300C and now runs most of the time at 200C with an occasional peak on refuel.

OK it basically works now..... Efficency next!

Thanks to all for your help.

Cheers

Steve