zinsser bin

Joined
11 Oct 2011
Messages
15
Reaction score
1
Location
Suffolk
Country
United Kingdom
Trying to cover varnished doors and rubbing down with 150 wet and dry doing 2 coats bin and top coat of crown once satin (oil base)
just about covering top coat is it wise to oil undercoat between bin and satin ?
Is rubbing down needed at all, any advice please !
 
Sponsored Links
1 coat of BIN as said, but why the Crown one coat ?
It isn't a very good paint and may well yellow badly.
Water based, such as Johnstones Aqua undercoat and gloss or for satin, try Joncryl U/C then their acrylic satin - both are way better and will last and not yellow.

Rub down as you say, then go over with a damp cloth to remove any dust. I would do this before the BIN and after. Use a mini roller to apply the paint then lay off with a good quality brush and feel proud !
 
Personally i'd use coverstain in place of bin because its such a biatch to apply.
Crown solo stuff is awful, used it once and it went yellow within a couple of weeks! I'm with Steve the johnstones acryllics are fine.
 
Sponsored Links
Agreed. Coverstain or even 123 at a push. I was under the impression that the BIN had been applied.
 
Firther to DCDEC's advice.

BIN is a great product but it is highly unlikely that you will get a decent/flat finish applying it by roller or brush. It just dries too quickly. You would end up needing to sand it flat and consequentially risk sanding through it.

I don't have much experience of using waterbased top coats on woodwork. They have obvious advantages such as non-yellowing, low odour, easy clean up. Another deal breaker for some people is the fast touch drying time, this can also been seen as a disadvantage though as it makes it difficult to maintain a wet edge (Floetrol helps though). Some, but not all, WB paints will allow you to apply more than one coat in day.

On the downside, WB is less durable. Most are a real PITA to try and sand flat in between coats. They are grain raising (water swells wood). The are inferior at obliterating colours, requiring more coats that their OB counterparts.

I recently had to use the Johnstones Aqua Eggshell on some doors. I hated every minute of it. The doors had previously been painted with WB eggshell/satin (not sure of the brand). Sanding was a nightmare. The paint just overheated and ripped off the surface and clogged the paper. Sanding times were upto 4 times longer than sanding OB painted doors.

I spot primed with Leyland WB UC. It isn't the best but it is a dream to sand back.

I then applied a coat of Johnstones Aqua eggshell. The areas where I had sanding through the original white paint very noticeable; not only in terms of colour contrast but also grain raising.

I sanded the door to flatten tramlines and applied a second coat. I realised that I was pretty much waiting my time. The same areas had the same problems.

I sanded again, applied BIN to the naked aresa and sanded that.

Then I applied more of the johnstones, the BIN had worked. Another sand and I final coat of johnstones.

Was I happy?- nope... the finish looked as though it was applied by a skilled DIYer. The paint hardened on my brushes unless I misted them with water so much that they became floppy (I still haven't managed to clean the brushes properly.

Although the client has known me for years and was happy with the finish he was less happy about the fact that any contact with ferrous materials leaves black marks. Whilst this isn't a problem for the doors, the window sill that I painted is, he leaves his keys on it.

I vowed to never use Johnstones Aqua again.. I haven't used their gloss and I am willing to take DCDEC's word that it is a good product.

Even though I remain cynical about WB low sheen finishes I have found one that make me swear less whilst working with it.

http://eico.co.uk/

Thus far I have only used it on the trim in a dark hallway (haven't started the doors yet). The existing woodwork is OB gloss that has yellowed.

I started by sanding and just applied the paint straight over the top, no UC. I waited a couple of days and was impressed by it's scratch proofness, it passed the fingernail test (I also tried it on a sample area that i didn't sand- it scratched off).

Colour obliteration was better than I had anticipated but not as good as OB. I have applied 3 coats thus far.

Flow- I have had to add Floetrol and been able to obtain a decent finish, not as good as OB but acceptable.

The most pleasing aspect is that the stuff is a dream to sand flat, perhaps even better then OB when you factor in drying times.

Black marks from metals- Fail, perhaps the gloss would pass (I am using the 10% sheen version). The marks do rub off though.

price- expensive- £76 for 5L excl postage (in reality the white is 4.5L because it is just the pale base that would otherwise have pigment added)

For the first time ever I have to admit that I am impressed with a WB finish. I will however spot prime the doors with BIN (or WB UC on the doors that have been sanded all the way back to the original varnish) and use OB UC to provide a uniform white and then 2 coats of EICO

Sorry about the length of the post, the preceding paragraph answers your question about how I would approach your task but I just wanted to inform you about some of the caveats.
 
That's the longest post I've ever seen in here - good though, it deals with the issues that we all have with WB. I find I get the best results if I use oil undercoat and then acrylic on top. You have to wait until it dries though for a few days or you get fish-eyes. (Especially with Dulux). Most pro decs make a complete mess of Aqua by over-brushing.
 
Good post opps i wasn't aware of the problem with metal so will look out for that. You might want to try sikkens BL primer undercoat, never had the problems you describe with sanding down with it or Johnstones u/c, i use silicon carbide paper. The sikkens satura BL is also very good, it can have a habit of forming drips and runs long after you'd expect but careful application prevents this and isn't a problem once your used to it.

Broad areas are challenging with the aqua gloss, the best thing to do is as Joe says and not over brush/fiddle with it.

The other paint worth mentioning is bedec who are getting some very good reviews of their WB products, i've never tried any of their trim paints so will have a go when i get the chance.
From what i've read Dulux have sorted their yellowing problems and i used some last week and the finish was superb, maybe you'd be better off sticking with OB if the WB products are giving you so much grief at least until the next generation of paint comes to the market

Had the paint that was ripping on you been applied over an OB'd coating?, i've had this myself when WB has been applied without decent prep.

Overall though i'm seeing WB jobs i did a year ago still looking like they were painted yesterday, and this long lasting fresh look is a massive bonus.
 
Thanks for the help guys, the solo is cream white which is lucky as its supplied by the client so not so worried about yellowing, the bin is as you say just horrible to apply worried that just one coat of bin would be enough to stop bleed through, will keep at it.....
 

DIYnot Local

Staff member

If you need to find a tradesperson to get your job done, please try our local search below, or if you are doing it yourself you can find suppliers local to you.

Select the supplier or trade you require, enter your location to begin your search.


Are you a trade or supplier? You can create your listing free at DIYnot Local

 
Sponsored Links
Back
Top