Zinsser gardz over old wallpaper paste

[rivergo1d]

Hi
Is it necessary to remove as much of the old paste as possible prior to applying Gardz, or so long as the surface is flat etc Gardz can just go on?

If the pste does need to be taken off, is it best to use homegrown methods such as fabric conditioner, or something specialist like DIF? (NB wallpaper has already been removed).

I also need to sand, easifill, etc prior to matt emulsion, presumably the sequence is (DIF etc if necessary?), sugar soap, sand, Gardz, easifill, resand, etc ...?

Thanks!

 

[oldgreymouse]

Do not use fabric conditioner, it has nothing to do with painting and decorating.
Buy some sugar soap, granules or liquid and use this to wash down the walls.
It is not really difficult, work a small area at a time and keep changing the water. Zinsser gardz will cover over and seal in any paste still on the wall, but for a long time now I have just washed the walls down well, let it dry, filled any holes even if it takes a couple of goes, then sand off. Clean up then paint.

Gardz on the wall followed by your vinyl paint will be ok. As trade, I always keep Dulux Supermatt on my van and use it as the first thinned coat of paint followed by a second if I think it is needed. It works out cheaper than Gardz but Gardz is still a good product I then change over to vinyl paint for the the next 1 or 2 top coats

 

[rivergo1d]

Thanks, we tried the sugar soap first but found the fabric conditioner (recommended on various threads) made the paste bubble up more for easier scraping off. For whatever reason, sugar soap didn't seem to do the job quite so well, though we will be using it prior to any final prep.

 

[vibrobullit407]

I tend to just use warm water and a 4" brush to wash down the walls. I start from the top and scrub the walls in a saw motion downwards and side to side. Alway's work well for me. Gardz can be applied straight over the paste if needed yet I would always try and wash down first. After you have washed the walls and left to dry wet your finger and rub it against the wall as this will give a good indication if any paste is still present.

 

[rivergo1d]

Is it OK to use acrylic emulsion over gardz?

In fact for areas which need patch repair I am doing it in this order, hopefully it is OK:
1. Easifill
2. Gardz over whole wall includiong bits of easifill, bits of washed-away paste
3. Diluted dulux white matt emulsion (non-trade) over all of wall/gardz
4. Two coats of acrylic emulsion

Have seen another thread elsewhere mentioning the new B&Q / Valspar colour-match paints, meant to be very washable but are acrylic - any views on these? Trouble is all the off-the-shelf colours we like are in styles known for NOT being readily washable.

 

[WalksWithTurkeys]

Is it OK to use acrylic emulsion over gardz?

In fact for areas which need patch repair I am doing it in this order, hopefully it is OK:
1. Easifill
2. Gardz over whole wall includiong bits of easifill, bits of washed-away paste
3. Diluted dulux white matt emulsion (non-trade) over all of wall/gardz
4. Two coats of acrylic emulsion

Have seen another thread elsewhere mentioning the new B&Q / Valspar colour-match paints, meant to be very washable but are acrylic - any views on these? Trouble is all the off-the-shelf colours we like are in styles known for NOT being readily washable.

I applied acrylic emulsion over Gardz and it seems fine. I did most of my house that way as the walls were porous with some paste on which was hard to remove. It struck me later that Gardz is an acrylic primer, so it might be possible just to use acrylic emulsion and skip the Gardz.

 

[dcdec]

You cant apply emulsion over wall paper paste, the paint will crack. Gardz isn't really a primer its a binder sealer

 

[WalksWithTurkeys]

You cant apply emulsion over wall paper paste, the paint will crack. Gardz isn't really a primer its a binder sealer

Have you tried applying an acrylic emulsion on plaster with some paste in it? I know ordinary emulsion will crack. I'm just curious to see if acrylic emulsion behaves the same way.

 

[opps]

Why not just use a steam stripper and wide blade knife to remove any paste, followed up by a thorough sand with a DA?

 

[opps]

You cant apply emulsion over wall paper paste, the paint will crack. Gardz isn't really a primer its a binder sealer

As DCDEC says, Guardz is a sealer. It provides a moisture resistant barrier that will prevent the water in emulsion from re-activating the paste.

Emulsion is previous and subsequent coats will allow moisture to pass through and reactivate the paste if no sealant is used. This can be evidenced by painting over water stains, as you apply more emulsion the stain keeps bleeding through.

 

[opps]

You cant apply emulsion over wall paper paste, the paint will crack. Gardz isn't really a primer its a binder sealer

Have you tried applying an acrylic emulsion on plaster with some paste in it? I know ordinary emulsion will crack. I'm just curious to see if acrylic emulsion behaves the same way.

It is true that a an emulsion with a very high acrylic content will act in the same way as the guardz, ie sealing the surface. Acrylics are much more expensive than vinyls so most paints will contain varying degrees of both.

Do you have a specific emulsion in mind?

BTW to the best of my knowledge latex paint has no latex in it...

 

[WalksWithTurkeys]

You cant apply emulsion over wall paper paste, the paint will crack. Gardz isn't really a primer its a binder sealer

Have you tried applying an acrylic emulsion on plaster with some paste in it? I know ordinary emulsion will crack. I'm just curious to see if acrylic emulsion behaves the same way.

It is true that a an emulsion with a very high acrylic content will act in the same way as the guardz, ie sealing the surface. Acrylics are much more expensive than vinyls so most paints will contain varying degrees of both.

Do you have a specific emulsion in mind?

BTW to the best of my knowledge latex paint has no latex in it...

I was asking out of curiosity given that the acrylic content might be acting as the sealer in Gardz. I used Endurance Matt, the consumer version of Dulux Diamond Matt. As you say, it is much more expensive than normal emulsion, whereas Gardz is relatively cheap, but with no pigment. However, the first coat of Endurance on Gardz covers very poorly for some reason, so it would have been nice to have cut out the Gardz. Too late now though, for me that is.

Yes latex paint has no latex in it, and latex self levelling compound has no latex either, I think the term refers to the way matter is held in suspension, I could be wrong, probably am.

 

[opps]

You cant apply emulsion over wall paper paste, the paint will crack. Gardz isn't really a primer its a binder sealer

Have you tried applying an acrylic emulsion on plaster with some paste in it? I know ordinary emulsion will crack. I'm just curious to see if acrylic emulsion behaves the same way.

It is true that a an emulsion with a very high acrylic content will act in the same way as the guardz, ie sealing the surface. Acrylics are much more expensive than vinyls so most paints will contain varying degrees of both.

Do you have a specific emulsion in mind?

BTW to the best of my knowledge latex paint has no latex in it...

I was asking out of curiosity given that the acrylic content might be acting as the sealer in Gardz. I used Endurance Matt, the consumer version of Dulux Diamond Matt. As you say, it is much more expensive than normal emulsion, whereas Gardz is relatively cheap, but with no pigment. However, the first coat of Endurance on Gardz covers very poorly for some reason, so it would have been nice to have cut out the Gardz. Too late now though, for me that is.

Yes latex paint has no latex in it, and latex self levelling compound has no latex either, I think the term refers to the way matter is held in suspension, I could be wrong, probably am.

I have never used Guardz but suspect that the poor paint coverage is down to the fact that the plaster is no longer absorbent. Paints tend to cover better when being applied to absorbent surfaces. When painting MDF with OB eggshell, I use the cheaper/inferior Leyland acrylic eggshell because it has so little acrylic that the level of suction remains high and enables me to obtain better coverage with my first eggshell.

"LATEX-BASED BINDERS. Most waterbased
paints are “latex” paints.* The binder
in a latex paint is a solid, plastic-like material
dispersed as microscopic particles in water.
This dispersion is a milky-white liquid, which
is called latex in the paint industry, in that it is
reminiscent of natural latex from the rubber
tree."

Source= http://www.industrialpaintquality.com/pdfs/ingredientsofpaint.pdf