Earth Bonding, Copper Pipe

[IanNE]

I've replaced a lot of my plumbing in the house with plastic speedift pipe and connections... A lot of my earthing was attached to the copper piping, what do I use as alternative earthing now?

Thanks

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

Ideally you would need to loop/link across all the the copper pipes where you have used plastic joints, using 10mm CSA earth cable.
This again ideally should be a continuous length of cable that is unbroken at the earthing clamp position. And for an additional headache all the clamps should be easily accessible for maintenance, inspection and testing purposes. Good them speed fit stuff aren't they?
Some may argue that once you have placed a plastic intersection, that then earth bonding would not be required beyond that point!

 

[ericmark]

Where the 17th Edition wiring regulations are followed then it is unlikely you need earth bonding any more.

The idea of bonding metal which interconnects rooms is so a fault in one room can't be transmitted to another room. For example a table lamp falling and smashing the bulb with the filaments resting against a radiator can't cause one to get a shock when touching a different radiator.

It's all part of a risk assessment as an earthed radiator touched at the same time as a faulty appliance will give more of a shock than one not earthed.

However although a meter of fresh water in a plastic pipe will isolate with a plastic connector of maybe just 10mm separation with iron laden central heating water would not.

So where underfloor plastic piping is used and only where visible is there metal pipe then no real need to earth. However when plastic fittings only are used then one would need to bridge the plastic fitting with a wire.

Any screw connection needs maintenance access yet the spiral springs used with many epoxy resin type cable joints I have never trusted.

We don't live in an ideal world so you must do your own risk assessment. There is no black and white but as I said at the start with all circuits now being RCD protected the chance of a fault in one room transmitting to another room without opening the RCD is slim.

The problem is the mixture of old and new and considering how many houses still have no earth to lights which was required back in the 1960's it will take a long time before the 2008 requirement for RCD protection is adopted in all houses.

 

[JohnW2]

Ideally you would need to loop/link across all the the copper pipes where you have used plastic joints, using 10mm CSA earth cable.

Are you sure you've read the OP correctly? I see no suggestion that joints between copper pipes have been replaced by plastic ones, only that a lot of the copper pipe has been replaced with plastic, using plastic joints.

In any event, even if there were plastic joints and/or sections of plastic pipe within copper pipework, why would the sort of 'strapping' (with 10mm² cable) you describe be necessary? Provided that primary bonding is applied to any metal service which enters the premises, close to where it enters the property, and any required (unlikely) supplemenatry bonding is attached to any accessible extraneous metal plumbing in the location, I don't see why such 'stapping' would be required.

What am I missing?

Kind Regards, John

 

[EFLImpudence]

I've replaced a lot of my plumbing in the house with plastic speedift pipe and connections... A lot of my earthing was attached to the copper piping, what do I use as alternative earthing now?

Firstly, it is NOT earthing, it is bonding - required because the pipes are or were earthed and are extraneous-conductive-parts.

Now that you have introduced plastic pipes, rather than use alternative bonding, it may actually require the removal of all or some supplementary bonding (in the bathroom) as the pipes may no longer be extraneous-conductive-parts.
Only testing by someone who knows what they are doing can verify this.

Apart from this, as said above, as long as the main bonding is connected at the point of entry into the premises, you do not have to do anything.

 

[EFLImpudence]

Ideally you would need to loop/link across all the the copper pipes where you have used plastic joints, using 10mm CSA earth cable.

What am I missing?

Nothing.

Quite frankly - it's a very strange statement - especially the part about using a continuous length of cable.

 

[JohnW2]

Ideally you would need to loop/link across all the the copper pipes where you have used plastic joints, using 10mm CSA earth cable.

What am I missing?

Nothing. Quite frankly - it's a very strange statement - especially the part about using a continuous length of cable.

Thanks for confirming that I wasn't going mad! As for 'especiallys', I think I would also add the "10mm² CSA" bit. He surely wasn't talking about some sort of 'primary bonding in bits', made up of lots of 10mm² links across plastic interruptions??!!

Kind Regards, John

 

[ban-all-sheds]

... earth bonding ...

 

[IanNE]

So say its all plastic and copper pipe has been removed...

How do I have an earth? what do I connect too, do I still need an earth?

Thanks

 

[JohnW2]

So say its all plastic and copper pipe has been removed... How do I have an earth? what do I connect too, do I still need an earth?

You wouldn't need an 'earth'. If water, gas, oil or any other service entered your house in metal pipe, there would be a requirement to bond that/those, from close to where they entered the premises to the Main Earthing Terminal near (or in) your consumer unit/fusebox, but that's all.

Kind Regards, John

 

[EFLImpudence]

So say its all plastic and copper pipe has been removed...

its all plastic and copper pipe has been removed...

How do I have an earth? what do I connect too, do I still need an earth?

Have you not read the replies?

The first from PBoD is wrong.


I am not sure what you mean.

You cannot 'earth' plastic. It does not conduct electricity.

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

I don't think what I suggest was wrong, keeping continuity along all exposed conductive parts, hardly wrong, as I said could be argued against.
If we really wanted to pick at the bones, the real wrong thing is installing speed or compression fittings in position that may not be easily accessible if a leak occurred, which they often do in these type of fittings.

 

[EFLImpudence]

I don't think what I suggest was wrong, keeping continuity along all exposed conductive parts, hardly wrong, as I said could be argued against.

But we don't want to keep continuity.
It would be better if it could be removed.

If we really wanted to pick at the bones, the real wrong thing is installing speed or compression fittings in position that may not be easily accessible if a leak occurred, which they often do in these type of fittings.

Oh that's plumbing.
I am not worthy enough to comment.

 

[JohnW2]

I don't think what I suggest was wrong, keeping continuity along all exposed conductive parts, hardly wrong,...

Continuity between exposed-c-ps is achieved via CPCs. Did you perhaps mean extraneous-c-ps? If you did, the pipes in question obviously wouldn't be that, if they were downstream of an insulating interruption. I'm confused.

If we really wanted to pick at the bones, the real wrong thing is installing speed or compression fittings in position that may not be easily accessible if a leak occurred, which they often do in these type of fittings.

Those are plumbing, not electrical issues - but how are you suggesting one should join plastic pipes? One can't solder them!

Kind Regards, John

 

[EFLImpudence]

Missed that.