Hob Replacement

[diyer56]

Hi,

I was wondering if someone could provide some advice please?

I have a ceramic hob which I would like to replace. It is a 6000W model (based on label under the hob) and is supplied by 4mm2 cable from the CU via a DP cooker switch and connection point. The cable run is approximately 3-4m and runs under floorboards and behind tiles to get to its final destination.

Ideally I would like to replace the hob with an induction model however these all seem to be 7.2kW. Would the cable I already have be suitable for this or do I have to replace directly with another 6kW model?

Thanks for your help

 

[EFLImpudence]

Yes,it will be fine but the protection in the CU must be no more than a 30A fuse or 32A mcb (miniature circuit breaker).

 

[diyer56]

Thanks, the CU has a 32Amp MCB.

I thought I may need to upgrade to 6mm2 cable?

 

[ericmark]

The table 4D5 shows Reference Method 100# (above a plasterboard ceiling covered by thermal insulation not exceeding 100 mm in thickness) at 27A and Reference Method C* (Clipped direct) at 37A and your installation is from description between the two so 32A I would consider as OK.

Also time does come into the equation and an induction hob very quickly reaches temperature and once reached the power is reduced so the time at full load is much shorter than with other types of electric hob.

The 32A MCB fitted is to protect the cable and clearly the person you fitted it considered the 32A MCB was fine and it was common to use 4mm for 32A radial circuits for years so I see no problem at all in using the cable and MCB already fitted.

I would however warn from experience when selecting an induction hob do not get one with touch controls. Although with halogen the touch controls were good one of the advantages of the induction is the speed of reaction and there is no need to remove a pan from the hob when it starts to boil over one can just turn down the power. However using touch controls is too slow with repeated touching required but the simple knob is fast to work. With the hob being cooler there is no problem with cleaning so advantages of touch control are lost. I have a Belling with knobs on and my mother had one of the touch controls and it was so much harder to use than the Belling. Learn from our mistake.

 

[diyer56]

Thank you very much both for your advice.

Now to find a 'manual control' 60cm induction hob which will fit in the existing cut out and doesn't break the bank

Thanks again

 

[ericmark]

I used a Belling stand alone and it does seem similar to this one however when one looks more carefully the outputs are different. The IH60R lists:-
Front left: 1.5kw (boost to 2.0kw)
Rear left: 1.2kw (boost to 1.6kw)
Rear right: 1.5kW (boost to 2.0kw)
Front right: 1.2kw (boost to 1.6kw)
The FSE60i that I have however shows:-
Front left: 1.85kw (boost to 3.0kw)
Rear left: 1.85kw (boost to 3.0kw)
Rear right: 2.3kW (boost to 3.7kw)
Front right: 1.40kw (boost to 2.2kw)
To be frank I only use the boost with plain water as even 2.2kw will burn stuff onto the pan rather than cook it so the high output is not really required. Also can't use boost and boil/simmer setting together and in the main I set to boil then auto drop to simmer.

The IH60RXL has high outputs like mine and look at the pictures and you will have a hard time seeing any difference between them.

The higher output type have the option to use two areas combined for use with griddle plates and the like. Never used one. We got one but not really used.

We had a problem with pressure cooker as thought the stainless steel one would work but no stainless steel is not magnetic. We then got one from Lidi but what I didn't realise pressure cookers come with different pressures and the Lidi one uses lower pressure than the old stainless steel one. I asked about what happens when 3.7kW is used with a pressure cooker can the pressure release deal with that power but could get no answer.

We now use a plastic pressure cooker designed to go inside the microwave from QVC and it works very well.

The tea pot also had to be changed again original not magnetic my son-in-law spent ages going around the shops in Turkey with a magnet to find one with magnetic bottom. The double type water at bottom and tea at top and it does work well as you can set a much lower heat with induction than with other hobs and should I forget it's on it auto turns off after a set time but never left it long enough for it to activate yet. Have forgot to switch off after taking pan off and had it auto shut down that ring again never timed how long it takes.

Child lock is childish as it was grand children (7 year old) who worked out how to set it leaving me to get out book to find how to remove. But now we do use when 3 year old is around he loves twiddling knobs.

What you need to remember a conventional hob with 1.4kW will not heat the food as quick as an induction hob with 1.4kW as with induction all heat goes into food not the kitchen. Also I can tilt my frying pan around 1/2 inch gap pan to hob and it still gets full heat like with gas. Although all pans do have ground base it's not really required.

Good luck let us know how you find it.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Drawing showing what happens when you try to use a large pan on that Belling hob:

 

[diyer56]

So the issue is that I could only use the left two rings with a large pan?

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Yup - controls on the hob surface are daft.

 

[ericmark]

I have never had a problem with pan sizes. The base of the tea pot is very small and I have used it many times without a problem. On mine the knobs are at front and below hob hight so not covered but with touch controls clearly the pan can't overlap the controls either so not really an issue.

I did note my mothers induction needed the pans to be far more central than mine. I often when stirring allow the pan to wander and it does not seem to be a problem with my Belling but it was with mothers induction can't now remember the make.

Unlike with elements it's an area not a finely defined element and although there will be a point where U is displayed as you leave the area the latitude is quite large.

Out of interest what does BAS use to cook with, Last time he said he cooked with gas?

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I do use gas.

The heat source isn't the issue - it's the stupidity of the control placement - they do the same with gas, halogen and ceramic hobs too.

 

[ericmark]

I do use gas.

The heat source isn't the issue - it's the stupidity of the control placement - they do the same with gas, halogen and ceramic hobs too.

I would agree that it really would be better with a remote knob or touch sensor away from the hob but I can't see any manufacturer designing a hob where the knobs to touch controls are remote they will want integral controls.

With stand alone cookers like the one I use the manufacturer is able to mount knobs away from the hob and the hob is generally deeper front to back. Also the oven can use top, bottom and back elements together where with separate ovens the 16A supply does not allow this.

However it does not matter if a knob or touch controls large pans will be a problem. Either a wider hob or stand alone is really the only way out.

The eye level oven has clearly an advantage being eye level however my daughter has an oven under the counter and I do question why. In her case house was like that when see moved in but to me to design an oven where you have to kneel down to use it then why not use a stand alone unit with all the advantages of the stand alone?

My mother's kitchen was carefully designed so the oven door passes over the wheel chair arm rests but only just so she can still see inside the grill yet they still forgot to make new labels so the knobs could be read from below.

As well as the time delay using touch controls there was also a visibility issue. Until I sat in my mothers wheel chair I did not realise but at that angle one could not see any marking on the control panel. The same would be true with children.

She had a HII64401T Beko hob fitted and it had to be removed and replaced. A number of problems the main one she had an old pace maker fitted and it had EMC problems and could not be used with an induction hob. Now changed so she now can use induction. However the touch controls were also a major issue. Both the visibility and the requiring multi-presses to control. First one had to select which hob then multi-presses to lift or lower the temperature.

The reason for fitting it was safety so if she slipped and touched the hob the injury caused would be limited. Although at 100C it would burn it would be less than with 200C of the conventional hob. And also fast reaction time so she did not need to lift a pan. However she did need to lift pan and unlike the Belling the time before it switched off was very short so removing the pan to add for example water on return one had to set the heat all over again.

The touch controls looked good but were a major factor is replacing the hob for one with knobs. A halogen hob because of pace maker.

Having made a mistake I would not want others to make the same mistake. I really like my induction but mothers was a flop.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I would agree that it really would be better with a remote knob or touch sensor away from the hob but I can't see any manufacturer designing a hob where the knobs to touch controls are remote they will want integral controls.

But often you're not allowed to use the space immediately under a hob anyway, so you end up with a filler panel in the unit underneath. It would not be beyond the wit of designers (although it might be beyond that of stylists) to have a separate control panel for electric hobs, with a simple plug & socket connection. Yes it would be a bit harder to install, but given the ease of use improvement a lot of thinking people would favour it.

With stand alone cookers like the one I use the manufacturer is able to mount knobs away from the hob and the hob is generally deeper front to back.

Exactly - I don't think you'll find a single standalone cooker where they have decided that the best place for the controls was right next to the burners on the hob.

Until I sat in my mothers wheel chair I did not realise but at that angle one could not see any marking on the control panel. The same would be true with children.

What markings do you get on children?

 

[ericmark]

The first example is not integrated but I do like the Wolf. We had a hob with where grill would normally be a rice cooker when in Hong Kong. And there are many stand on work surface rather than built in hobs with knobs at front or angled so not where pans would sit.

However my induction hob is for just one ring 3.7 kW but many of the stand alone plug in hobs have a very low output. but this one is just 1800W although all that heat goes into the pan so better than a conventional 1800W hob it would not compare with the larger types.

The old saying "Cooking on gas" to mean doing if fast is still true with many induction hobs where the output is rather low although test with my cooker and it is far faster and more controllable than gas but that's mine many are no where near the output of mine.

But at £50 each you could fit 4 of the Lakeland Induction hobs for the price of a built in one. Clearly they are over priced.

 

[diyer56]

Thanks everyone for your help, I thought I would let you know how I got on.

I trawled the web and local suppliers for the Belling that was recommended (with dial controls) but unfortunately it seemed to be on back order with the manufacturer everywhere I went.

In the end I settled for an Ikea Folklig. These are made by Whirlpool and come with a 5 year warranty. It was available for same day collection, which was also a bonus.

Anyway, trip home and then a quick install. The hole in the worktop only needed slight alteration and it was straight forward to wire into the existing cooker outlet. As an added bonus the wattage on the label is 6000W - the same as my original ceramic hob. With that said at least I know, from the helpful advice on this forum, that the outlet can cope with the higher powered units in future if I see fit.

With regard to induction in general, it really is excellent. I can boil water from cold in minutes. As someone who has always used gas hobs I am extremely impressed.

Thanks again for all your help/advice.