Hydro Spartan Cylinder

[david1975]

Hi guys. Has anyone got any experience of working on systems with Hydro Spartan Cylinders.
I've been called to a job where the customer has very little heat being transferred to her rads or hot water supply.
Its a back boiler system with primatic hot water cylinder, but it also has another small copper cylinder(about 18in), a Hydro Spartan Cylinder.
Customers has BG contract and they've been in and fitted new parts to just about everything by sounds of it including new pump and 3port valve, boiler seems to be working fine.
She's now been advised that she'll need a power flush, which of course I'm happy to do at half the price BG quoted.
My understanding is that this Hydro Spartan Cylinder is basically a primatic cylinder that takes place of the F & E tank, but if their hot water cylinder is primatic, why would they need this.
I'd like to remove it as I think it maybe part of the problem and wondered if anyone had any experience or could foresee any problems with this.

I would of course be isolating this and the prismatic cylinder before doing power flush.

 

[dcawkwell]

Yes damn awful thing. It effectly makes a sort of sealed system.

If you remove it and put in a proper header tank it will sort the problem.

Had one on a open vented boiler I was trying to install.
Don't know what was wrong with it as the air was bleeding out.

In the end converted to sealed system which is what I should have
done in the first place.

Normally I only install system boilers.

 

[david1975]

Thanks for the reply.
Did advise new heating system might be an option considering age and scrappage allowance, but no money for that at the moment.

If the hot water cylinder is primatic, surely the system doesn't need an F & E tank or this Hydro Spartan thing.

Ground floor flat, limited access in loft, fitting header tank not straight forward.

 

[dcawkwell]

Thanks for the reply.
Did advise new heating system might be an option considering age and scrappage allowance, but no money for that at the moment.

If the hot water cylinder is primatic, surely the system doesn't need an F & E tank or this Hydro Spartan thing.

Ground floor flat, limited access in loft, fitting header tank not straight forward.

It won't be a primatic cylinder just a normal cylinder.
The spartan is just working as an expansion vessel sort of thing.

 

[david1975]

I know, I thought the same at first, but hot water cylinder is definitely primatic, stamped on side of cylinder, BG guy told customer the same.
Has kind of stumped me, which is why I'm now second guessing that there's maybe a reason for it being there.
Hate primatic cylinders, but surely the point of them is to take up any expansion whilst keeping CH and Dom water separate, in theory.

 

[dcawkwell]

I know, I thought the same at first, but hot water cylinder is definitely primatic, stamped on side of cylinder, BG guy told customer the same.
Has kind of stumped me, which is why I'm now second guessing that there's maybe a reason for it being there.
Hate primatic cylinders, but surely the point of them is to take up any expansion whilst keeping CH and Dom water separate, in theory.

Cheaper to chuck the cylinder and get a new one in there and sort
the thing out properly than mess about with old crap that will
give nothing but trouble.
Learnt my lesson. I tell the customer how best to sort the system out
and only take that on not interested in what they want.

In this case best to rip out the spartan and primatic tank.
In the end actually better to rip the lot out and put a cheap combi in.
Tell her to give BG the push and the amount she saves will
pay for the combi over the next 5 years if she goes for a 5 year
manufacturers.

 

[david1975]

Yep, definitely agree with you, but can only advise. Starting to wish I'd walked away from this one.
Think I'll take out Hydro Spartan as I can't see why its required, flush out system as there is a lot of sludge and see what happens.

Thanks for your comments.

 

[Gasguru]

Starting to wish I'd walked away from this one.

Then walk away...you're not a charity.

It appears to be a lash up. I've long since given up looking at backboilers/Primatics/HydroSpartens/Elson/Hartons...not even open flue these days. There's easier ways of making money. Customers with this old carp are always looking for a cheap solution...and there rarely is one. Of course BG had no right in insuring the junk in the first place.

 

[DeltaT2]

Thanks for the reply.
Did advise new heating system might be an option considering age and scrappage allowance, but no money for that at the moment.

If the hot water cylinder is primatic, surely the system doesn't need an F & E tank or this Hydro Spartan thing.

Ground floor flat, limited access in loft, fitting header tank not straight forward.

It won't be a primatic cylinder just a normal cylinder.
The spartan is just working as an expansion vessel sort of thing.

I agree, I don't think Hydro Spartan manufactured Primatic HW cylinders.

As advised, fit a standard double feed indirect HW cylinder & convert to a sealed system. If the boiler has a High Temperature Cut-Out thermostat??!! Which is required for sealed CH systems.

 

[david1975]

Just thought I'd post how job finished up.
Does look like a bit of a lashed up system. Either way, primatic hot water cyl was leaking so needed replaced, took out Hydro Spartan(might cut open and post pics, kindoff intrigued as to whats inside, CH vent connected to bottom then HW outlet from top of cylinder entered at one side and exited at other).
Sytem was ancient so didn't want to seal/pressurise it, as previously stated fitting F & E tank in loft not straightforward.
In the end power flushed system(tons of sludge) and, after stressing to cust that new combi would be best option, put in new primatic cylinder.
Rads skelpin' hot, cust happy, lessons learned.

Thanks for the comments

 

[doitall]

Inside is 2 chambers with a tube sticking up from the bottom one.

The top (DHW) fills, then floods over into the bottom HTG chamber.