B&Q BOILERS.

The 400 series Vaillant is a little disappointing and is made purely for the UK market. Why are boilers that are made only for us (and this comment isn't specifically pointing at Vaillant) a bit cheap and nasty, I wonder?

Our installed base failure rate for 6, 8 and 9 series Vaillants is the lowest of any manufacturer we fit. The last APS and fan failure we had was over two and half years ago. Never had a Vaillant PCB fail, other than a 400 with casing swarf in the cover shorting it out.

corgiman said:

I always tell my client that if a boilerman says "oh no one of these" it usually means he doesnt lock horns with them very much so they must be a good boiler

Click to expand...

Unless its a Powermax!

Agile said:

corgiman said:

I always tell my client that if a boilerman says "oh no one of these" it usually means he doesnt lock horns with them very much so they must be a good boiler

Click to expand...

Unless its a Powermax!

Click to expand...

or a Mk 1 Lynx!

Agile said:

corgiman said:

I always tell my client that if a boilerman says "oh no one of these" it usually means he doesnt lock horns with them very much so they must be a good boiler

Click to expand...

Unless its a Powermax!

Click to expand...

Fair Cop



I loved the lynx Mrk 1 and the two was so reliable potterton stopped making it

typical

Thats typical big company policy!

They redesign and modernise the Lynx and produce a very reliable simple boiler using standard techniques and parts!

Then after a very short time they design and introduce the Puma using non standard flow switch and diverter and a very unreliable PCB !!!

Agile said:

Thats typical big company policy!

They redesign and modernise the Lynx and produce a very reliable simple boiler using standard techniques and parts!

Then after a very short time they design and introduce the Puma using non standard flow switch and diverter and a very unreliable PCB !!!

Click to expand...

it was a great shame cos I personally dont think there has been a more reliable combi before or since

Agile wrote

All boilers break down

Click to expand...

Really. diy installed my Grant oil fired boiler 8 years ago and still going strong. No probs and no servicing since. Oil in one end and heat out the other and not an ofteccie in sight. What more could you want ?.
Not much good to you lot though as you would all be without a job.
Be honest, dodgy manufactured goods are right up your street.

Balenza said:

Agile wrote

All boilers break down

Click to expand...

:
Be honest, dodgy manufactured goods are right up your street.

Click to expand...

not really.

i would quite happily service boilers once a year and only deal with system/install problems for the rest of my working life.

you assume because we repair the ccrap boilers that we take some sort of perverse pleasure in them being made poorly. some might....i dont.

Sorted , had a Baxi 105 he fitted today. Thanks for the replies.

jrh1 said:

Sorted , had a Baxi 105 he fitted today. Thanks for the replies.

Click to expand...

haha and baxi sneak in for the win. well at least the 105he is easy to fix

We bought a Ravenheat CSI-85T boiler about 3 years ago, that was (still is?) a popular model from B&Q. We fitted it ourselves including all of the gas work and plumbing and, yes, we did get it checked over and commisioned by a (friendly) Corgi registered engineer (but only for the purposes of putting a tick in a box for insurance purposes).

I'm in two minds about the Ravenheat... It was only post-purchase that I found out about the issues flagged with it concerning rotting condensers and what seems to be a general unpopularity with fitters. We've had three problems with it:

First a blocked condenser. This actually required removal to flush-out properly (where we also discovered a cross-threaded bolt between it and the rest of the system...nice).

Second the timer failed...ehh, nothing more to say really, we use an external wireless thermostat with timed entries anyway, so this isn't an issue for us as the boiler's own timer is now "on" all the time anyway (by virture of the fact it's disconnected and we now effectively have a CSI85 rather than a CSI85T ).

Third, one of the relays on the main PCB was blackend and failing, meaning it wouldn't always fire-up. We replaced this with a new relay of the same type from RS, but also included a socket so that it could be replaced easier at a later date.

With the above you might think it odd that I said "I'm in two minds about the Ravenheat" rather than "I hate it!" . Touch wood we've not had any issues with it for about two years, and the fact that it costs £450 and is reasonably economic is a big factor in my view (I was almost tempted to buy another just for spares as then it's still not quite pushing the total cost of a similarly spec-ed boiler).

I dont know what you mean by the "condensor" and wonder exactly what was blocking it !

The timer failure would usually be covered by the warranty.

The failure of the relay is unusual on the ravenheat because they usually use Finder relays with massive silver contacts which virtually never fail. perhaps they have moved to a cheap relay to save costs and increase the unreliability.

Properly installed on a clean system any boiler can give good service and you have been unlucky having two faults ( timer and PCB ) within such a short time. I am skeptical about the "blocked condensor" being a real fault as such.

Tony

Agile said:

I dont know what you mean by the "condensor" and wonder exactly what was blocking it !

Click to expand...

Sorry. Swap "condenser" for "condensing heat exchanger" and that probably makes more sense .

Agile said:

The timer failure would usually be covered by the warranty.

Click to expand...

It was out of warranty.

Agile said:

The failure of the relay is unusual on the ravenheat because they usually use Finder relays with massive silver contacts which virtually never fail. perhaps they have moved to a cheap relay to save costs and increase the unreliability.

Click to expand...

It was a Finder relay, but it was blackened and failing. I do have a link to a couple of other folk on the A1 gas forum having similar problems with both the relays and the timer. I include it here, but it seems to be broken now:

http://cgi.www.a1-gas.co.uk/cgi-bin....cgi?getsubject=2488&script=question&frames=N

One of the chaps at the above link installed a heavy duty solid state relay instead to avoid the mechanical switching. As above, I replaced like-with-like but included a socket so it could be replaced later. It's worked fine since...

Agile said:

Properly installed on a clean system any boiler can give good service and you have been unlucky having two faults ( timer and PCB ) within such a short time. I am skeptical about the "blocked condensor" being a real fault as such.

Click to expand...

I wasn't really saying I've been unlucky or lucky, or that all of the above are faults, what I was just saying that despite the hassles I have had (and that crossed thread connecting connecting the condensing heat exchanger to the rest of the system is certainly a quality control issue on Ravenheat's side) the boiler still represents pretty good value to me...at least so far. Incidentally, the condensing heat exchanger looked to have be blocked by a couple of wasps that had weedled their way in over time...

Thats the first time I have ever heard of a Finder relay failing and they cost about FIVE times a cheap one because they have big silver contacts.

Boiler manufacturers generally use relays because they are mecnanically inherently fail safe and thats important with gas valves. You would not want a solid state relay holding the gas valve on as a result of a SC triac !!!

Having said that even relays sometimes jam on with welded contacts or mechanical failures. Thats very rare though and the current on a gas valve is less than 5% of the rated current

Since the manufacturer does not put wasps in a boiler that failure cannot be blamed on their boiler.

Many people who could not deal with those faults would consider that your boiler has been unreliable as its broken down every year and the cost of repair would have averaged about £130 p.a.

Tony

Agile said:

Thats the first time I have ever heard of a Finder relay failing and they cost about FIVE times a cheap one because they have big silver contacts.

Click to expand...

The relay in question had blackened contacts and was failing to make contact - others have experienced exactly the same thing in this boiler. Is this a general problem with the relays used? I don't know, but it's certainly the experience of at least myself and a few others with Ravenheat boilers. I'm just pointing out the issue and my own experience...

Agile said:

Boiler manufacturers generally use relays because they are mecnanically inherently fail safe and thats important with gas valves. You would not want a solid state relay holding the gas valve on as a result of a SC triac !!!

Click to expand...

This wasn't an "ordinary" sold-state relay. As above, it was a heavy duty job that was (from memory) used in ATMs and which the chap in question had some spare.

Agile said:

Since the manufacturer does not put wasps in a boiler that failure cannot be blamed on their boiler.

Click to expand...

I was more pointing out the fact that it was a bugger to remove and clean because of the crossed thread which, I think you'll agree, certainly can be blamed on the manufacturer? In terms of wasps getting in...I am using the vertical flue option that goes through roof-tiles, so I'd imagine most folk would be using the horizontal supplied version (if there's a difference in grill etc.). Either way, this isn't the result of poor installation or maintenance, but neither am I claiming it's a fault.

Agile said:

Many people who could not deal with those faults would consider that your boiler has been unreliable as its broken down every year and the cost of repair would have averaged about £130 p.a.

Click to expand...

Agreed, but I'm just putting forward my experience. The cost of repair in my case has been my time and the £15 for the relays (+spares) and some sockets. Both the timer failure and the relay failures have been experienced by others - I'm just pointing that out, not claiming a trend... The crossed thread was definitely a quality control issue, although the condensing heat exchanger problem itself I would happily chalk up to over enthusiastic wasps in my area.