Water softener or whole house filter?

What would you consider the pro's and cons of these??

I need to do something to protect my house from hard water but wonder if the softener is the best bet over all. We're not planning on moving for a very long time so initial outlay isn't that important.

I'm considering around £600 for the softener but the H.H.F has just crossed my path as a possibility for a similar amount and judging by salt v filter replacement I guess they balance out over time..

Thought most welcome

Cheers

Richard

Hi,

What exactly do you mean by a whole house filter?

Rgds.

This

http://www.eastmidlandswater.com/Details.asp?ProductID=47

or this

http://www.eastmidlandswater.com/Details.asp?ProductID=87

Cheers

Richard

East Midlands Water sounds like an outfit trying to give the impression of being a water company. I don't believe it is. It just sells add on goodies. A Combimate or other similar silicon polyphosphate doser will do the job. There is a big disadvantage with softened water, it makes it far more difficult to rinse the dirt off hands and clothes.

We live in a hard water area, don't have significant problems.

East Midlands Water said:

The presence of Chlorine in the water is the cause of the taste and smell. An EMWC water filter unit removes total Chlorine at the point of delivery.

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But keeping a jug of water in the fridge will do the same, and chilled water tastes better.

East Midlands Water also said:

The most common chemical contamination is Chlorine, herbicides and pesticides. The most common metal contaminants are lead and aluminium.

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* The most common cause of lead in water is private plumbing. You can replace your pipes for a similar cost to one of their big units and ensure that any plumbing work you have done uses lead-free solder (regulatory requirement)
* Chlorine isn't a contaminant, it is a treatment chemical.
* Drinking water supplied by Water Companies must be free of pesticides and herbicides (thats why they treat it)

East Midlands Water then said:

The fitting of an EMWC water filter is particularly efficient at reducing the following substances, when present, from the mains water supply: taste, odour, trihalomethanes, pesticides, herbicides, aluminium, organic chemicals, lead and sediment.

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Since when are tase and odour substances? I thought they were characteristics

If you have THM's/pesticides/herbicides/organic chemicals in your drinking water then the DWI will be kicking somebody's backside.


Soften your water or fit a scale inhibitor by all means, but I believe any additional filtration is pointless and a waste of money.

Just out of interest the "sample" results that EMWC state in their research all indicate levels of Aluminium//lead/Iron/Manganese above set PCV's (prescribeb concentration values). This water would fail regulatory sampling by a water company and they would be obliged to take action (be it mains refurbishment or flushing programs)

The Chlorine levels are also stated as being well above "normal" levels. I think a lot of their numbers are made up. Try a different company.

oilman said:

East Midlands Water sounds like an outfit trying to give the impression of being a water company. I don't believe it is. It just sells add on goodies. A Combimate or other similar silicon polyphosphate doser will do the job. There is a big disadvantage with softened water, it makes it far more difficult to rinse the dirt off hands and clothes.

We live in a hard water area, don't have significant problems.

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They are what they say i.e. the East Midlands Water Company.

r.bartlett, I bought and installed one of these; http://www.eastmidlandswater.com/Details.asp?ProductID=87
2 years ago and am delighted with it. Less cleaning, less detergents, everything now staying clean, don't even put salt in the dishwasher now. Salt costs around £1 per week but that is more than offset on savings on the above; but its the cleaning or lack of it that is the real benefit.
I got great email customer support from them too. If you do go for it I would also recommend their connection kit too, reason being the pipes are a full 15mm internal bore unlike the 'washing machine' type pipes from the diy sheds which have 15mm connectors but a lesser bore pipe.

Yeah, but are they just another Frog. utility

bathjobby said:

They are what they say i.e. the East Midlands Water Company.

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Then do they sell water that is of a quality that needs customers to buy their add-ons to make the water palatable as well as safe?

Given Boxbasher's dissection of their blurb, I would give them a credit rating of zero.

Given that I don't live anywhere near the Midlands, I have no idea. I'm not getting into a '****ing contest' with you about any views you may have on this, I was merely answering the original post with my experience of this product. I thought thats what these forums are for.....

bathjobby said:

I'm not getting into a 'p******g contest' with you about any views you may have on this,............

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Then why the disguised abuse? I was not abusive toward you, disguised or otherwise. Or is this what you really think forums are for?

Guy's

This isn't about that company or it's products I just used them to high light what I meant by whole house filter. No i'm interested in the differences againt benefit

Cheers

Richard

Hi,

Apart from the advertising hype (common to a great deal of sales literature) then I can see no reason why one shouldn't deal with this company.

These two devices serve two different purposes. The water softener will soften the water and the filter will, as far as I can see, filter and treat impurities in the water. The filter is not a water softener or a polyphospate treatment: the water will remain as hard as it is when it enters the house.

I have (or had, but that's another story) the benefit of both of these devices, although not supplied by the EMWC. Our house is blessed with a private water supply, which means that it is fed from an underground spring. This is (a) free (Hooray!) but (b) occasionally collects frogs - dead or alive - and other debris (Booo!). We have a filter similar to the EMWC device to catch the sediment and frog particles. The filter cartidge also includes a carbon portion which is supposed to remove odours. This works fine, as it should, but the water is no less hard when it passes through.

We also have an ultra-violet DNA killer which purifies the water, but that's just to reassure anyone who is worried and isn't relevant to the thread.

Further down the line we have a salt-fed water softener which acts as all salt-fed softeners do. The end product from all this processing is as sweet and pure as you could wish to meet. Yes, I know you shouldn't drink softened water but I do occasionally as I don't suffer from any salt-aggravated conditions, nor am I very young or pregnant.

So that's it. I should not think that your mains supply requires a sediment filter. If you notice and object to high odour levels from your supply then the filter might help. If not then it would be a waste of money. It won't soften the water. If you fit a polyphosphate filter then this will help to prevent limescale deposits, but it won't soften the water. If you want soft water then fit the water softener.

Rgds.

PS The EMWC filter seems inordinately expensive! I'm sure ours (a Liff thing) was a fraction of that price.

Kes said:

We also have an ultra-violet DNA killer which purifies the water,

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At risk of sounding like a pedant, it doesn't purify. UV will kill any micro-organisms/bacteriological contamination, most importantly E-coli and Crytosoridium. Neither will it remove any metallic content.

And there's nothing wrong with dead frenchmen in your water...

I recently installed one of EMWC softeners and guess what, it softens the water. The other half decided that she liked the fluoride in the water we receive so we have a separate tap for the original water too.

I have not yet reaped the benefits of a water softener over a long period of time, and I drink the soft water, which admittedly tastes a lot different.

However: yes, EMWC, i don't beleive are a water company. They sell products. If you are looking for a water softener, they are much of a muchness, just chose someone either convenient or who you prefer personally.

There seem to be 2 types of people on here. Those that have and recommend softeners, and those that don't and don't recommend them. This seems to be personal preference. However I would go careful with statements from either side. Especially ones like 'leaving water in the fridge will remove chlorine', they are both idiotic, scientifically impossible and don't help the debate / answering here.

I would suggest that if you are unsure about having a water softener, try and find someone (family or friend) that does, and ask (if they will let you) to shower there or drink the water there or even just look at appliances there.

You will notice shiny clean appliance, such as kettles etc if they are using softened water in them.

You will also notice that the water tastes different, I have not yet worked out whether I like it or not.

In either case, I would have the separate tap fitted either; a). That is direct form the mains and doesn't run through the softener or b). Has a carbon filter attached that removes the majority of impurities and one would have thought, would taste slightly better.

Ultimately, if you feel you need one, go for it, it will save pipes, improve time taken to heat water (if only marginally) and reduce costs with cleaning products. If not, the money you save buying the softener can go towards new pipes, cleaning products etc etc in the long run.