25mm cable ???

[ban-all-sheds]

Coming up against people like you, well it’s ten a penny.

Why am I not at all surprised to learn that you have a lot of experience of encountering people who do know what they are talking about trying to get you to understand that you do not?

I’ve always been told I can’t do things, I’m incapable

I can believe that.

and it just makes me more determined.

More determined to learn, or more determined to blunder on?

you haven’t provided any information that has helped me or anyone else.

OK. If you promise that you will go away and use the information properly.

The thing is, rewiring a house, installing a CU, etc is not a trivial job, and I can assure you that it involves knowing far more than you think it does.

Asking questions here can be a useful part of a learning process, but they are not a substitute for proper structured studying. The key term there is "learning process" - you cannot learn all the things you need to know just by asking questions here. It isn't structured enough - it won't provide you with a way to progress where each step builds on what you learned before.

You can't carry out a job of this magnitude by asking whatever random questions happen to occur to you. You've already shown that you have some dodgy misconceptions - what if you get something wrong because you have no idea your knowledge is wrong? What if you miss something because you simply have no idea it even exists, and just don't realise you don't know it?

• //www.diynot.com/wiki/electrics
  
  
• //www.diynot.com/wiki/electrics:books
  
  
• http://web.archive.org/web/20080213151445/http://www.kevinboone.com/electricity.html
  
  
• http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Book/1.1.htm[/list]I suggest you get stuck into the last link right away - it won't give you design ideas, and unfortunately it doesn't refer to the current edition of the Wiring Regulations, but it's free, and will still give you a good grounding which you can augment with more up to date publications.
  
  
  

  All you've said is ''get someone to do it''.

  Because you can't.
  
  You really can't.
  
  
  

  You’re foaming at the mouth over petty definitions and correct terminology like you’re some kind of construction wizard.

  Hang on - I'll go and look in the mirror, and will report back.
  
  
  

  I wouldn’t troll someone’s thread

  I've not posted anything inflammatory, extraneous or off-topic with the deliberate intent of provoking you, or anyone else, into an emotional response or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.
  
  
  

  because I didn’t like their tone, besmirch and belittle everything they are trying to do, despite them saying they clearly need help and lack knowledge.

  So you recognise that you clearly need help and lack knowledge, but seem totally unwilling to see your helplessness and ignorance as reasons why you can't do this rewire yourself.
  
  
  

  I hold the regulations in the highest regard and I want to do the job properly

  Several posts of yours here give a very firm indication that the opposite is true.
  

  Going to do the runs with the neighbor and have it tested separate lol

  If you mean that to get self certified you need the electrician to do the whole job then who I get to check it all over and test will certify it .. why would I pay some rusty old pedophile council worker to come out ?

  Why would I need a designer for christ sake

  And no I won't pay when I can run wires myself and pay for the connections.

  I would notify building control if they offered a consultation service that I already pay for as part of council tax. The work will be inspected and signed of by a qualified electrician.

  It's not against the law and you don't need a doctorate to run dead cable. The entire system will be inspectable from start to finish, no boards fitted back, no connections covered up. I don't care if you're not happy with this, no pleasing some people

 

[SparrowHawk99]

So basically cable feeds around the perimeter of the open plan room, and doesn't exceed 100m2.

Not sure what you mean. Have to run to sockets ?

Arr what I mean to say is the ring circuit cabling runs around the kitchen and lounge, and the combined area of lounge/kitchen is no more than 100m2. Obviously the circuit comes off into the socket and then continues on. Haven't run in any boxes yet just the cable

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Recommend one for lounge, kitchen, I'm all ears

I'm sure you can use the internet to search for something which you like, and which is not a recessed torch that does a poor job on its own of lighting a room.

 

[SparrowHawk99]

Coming up against people like you, well it’s ten a penny.

Why am I not at all surprised to learn that you have a lot of experience of encountering people who do know what they are talking about trying to get you to understand that you do not?

I’ve always been told I can’t do things, I’m incapable

I can believe that.

and it just makes me more determined.

More determined to learn, or more determined to blunder on?

you haven’t provided any information that has helped me or anyone else.

OK. If you promise that you will go away and use the information properly.

The thing is, rewiring a house, installing a CU, etc is not a trivial job, and I can assure you that it involves knowing far more than you think it does.

Asking questions here can be a useful part of a learning process, but they are not a substitute for proper structured studying. The key term there is "learning process" - you cannot learn all the things you need to know just by asking questions here. It isn't structured enough - it won't provide you with a way to progress where each step builds on what you learned before.

You can't carry out a job of this magnitude by asking whatever random questions happen to occur to you. You've already shown that you have some dodgy misconceptions - what if you get something wrong because you have no idea your knowledge is wrong? What if you miss something because you simply have no idea it even exists, and just don't realise you don't know it?

• //www.diynot.com/wiki/electrics
  
  
• //www.diynot.com/wiki/electrics:books
  
  
• http://web.archive.org/web/20080213151445/http://www.kevinboone.com/electricity.html
  
  
• http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Book/1.1.htm[/list]I suggest you get stuck into the last link right away - it won't give you design ideas, and unfortunately it doesn't refer to the current edition of the Wiring Regulations, but it's free, and will still give you a good grounding which you can augment with more up to date publications.
  
  
  

  All you've said is ''get someone to do it''.

  Because you can't.
  
  You really can't.
  
  
  

  You’re foaming at the mouth over petty definitions and correct terminology like you’re some kind of construction wizard.

  Hang on - I'll go and look in the mirror, and will report back.
  
  
  

  I wouldn’t troll someone’s thread

  I've not posted anything inflammatory, extraneous or off-topic with the deliberate intent of provoking you, or anyone else, into an emotional response or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.
  
  
  

  because I didn’t like their tone, besmirch and belittle everything they are trying to do, despite them saying they clearly need help and lack knowledge.

  So you recognise that you clearly need help and lack knowledge, but seem totally unwilling to see your helplessness and ignorance as reasons why you can't do this rewire yourself.
  
  
  

  I hold the regulations in the highest regard and I want to do the job properly

  Several posts of yours here give a very firm indication that the opposite is true.
  

  Going to do the runs with the neighbor and have it tested separate lol

  If you mean that to get self certified you need the electrician to do the whole job then who I get to check it all over and test will certify it .. why would I pay some rusty old pedophile council worker to come out ?

  Why would I need a designer for christ sake

  And no I won't pay when I can run wires myself and pay for the connections.

  I would notify building control if they offered a consultation service that I already pay for as part of council tax. The work will be inspected and signed of by a qualified electrician.

  It's not against the law and you don't need a doctorate to run dead cable. The entire system will be inspectable from start to finish, no boards fitted back, no connections covered up. I don't care if you're not happy with this, no pleasing some people

• 
  
  I'm not going to go away and read about current and voltage. I'm not meddling with live electricity I'm running cable with my ex-sparky friend. You misconstrue what I've actually said a number of times. You don't shine to the idea of someone with no electrical training going near a cable, I really couldn't care less chap. As I say, I'm running cable at this stage, and it will be checked by a certified spark, not me, not my ex-spark friend who probably has more knowledge than you think you do of electrics. So far we ran the cables in a matter of hours, and will do upstairs tomorrow, then run the cables for the lighting. Don't like it? I don't care. Go and have a frenzy w@nk over the fact you're not getting through to me and never will, then come back and recommend a pendant for the lounge/kitchen like I asked

 

[SparrowHawk99]

Recommend one for lounge, kitchen, I'm all ears

I'm sure you can use the internet to search for something which you like, and which is not a recessed torch that does a poor job on its own of lighting a room.

So provide constructive feedback and answer the question with a suggestion

 

[ban-all-sheds]

It's not against the law

YES IT IS.

The LAW requires you to notify the work to Building Control BEFORE you start.

You did not so notify but you have started.

Therefore what you are doing is against the law. I don't care if you're not happy with this.

and you don't need a doctorate to run dead cable.

No, but you do need to know how to design circuits to be able to run the cable. You don't.

The entire system will be inspectable from start to finish, no boards fitted back, no connections covered up

And that is relevant to the certification of Design and of Construction, and meets the requirement of prior application for Building Regulations approval how, exactly?

I hold the regulations in the highest regard and I want to do the job properly

So what's going to happen about signing the declarations on the EIC?

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I'm not going to go away and read about current and voltage.

You have to, and that's all there is to it, unless you intend these cables to be decorative, and never actually used to carry electrical current.

You don't shine to the idea of someone with no electrical training going near a cable,

What I don't take a shine to are idiots like you who either willfully, or because they are actually even more stupid than they appear to be, do not accept that they have to know how to do the job properly.

Go and have a frenzy w@nk over the fact you're not getting through to me and never will

Oh - I know that nobody here is ever going to get through to you.

I know that you say you hold the regulations in the highest regard and you want to do the job properly, but that's a lie.

I know that you refuse to believe what people tell you about the law.

I know that you are a complete t**t.

then come back and recommend a pendant for the lounge/kitchen like I asked

This one.

 

[AndyPRK]

I'm not going to go away and read about current and voltage. I'm not meddling with live electricity I'm running cable with my ex-sparky friend.

As I say, I'm running cable at this stage, and it will be checked by a certified spark,

I think the issue is that most cables (except maybe lights) shouldn't be run in insulation. (insulation that keeps the house warm). So you need to be aware of this.

And you need to be aware of safe zones, i.e cables should run vertically or horizontally between outlets and not diagonally.

So it doesn't matter that your not connecting the cables up, because if the inspectors see's that they are wrong, you will have to redo them.

Its much easier to do it right the first time.

I'm just glad your doing it with an ex spark because he should know most of this

 

[ban-all-sheds]

So it doesn't matter that your not connecting the cables up, because if the inspectors see's that they are wrong, you will have to redo them.

What inspector?

 

[AndyPRK]

I have no idea.

Whoever is going to complete the paperwork.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

i for one don't use the spellcheck feature

Clearly not:

your quotings atrocias

Physician heal thy self.
.
.
The work is "know"

 

[sjwkmje]

So you are going to be running the cables and allow a spark to do the actual connections?

Running the cables I would class as needing to know how to design. There is more than just running the cables. It needs to be designed first then cables ran to the design.

Are you going to be notifying building control?

Do you know about building legislations (Part L, Part P) that apply and safe zones?

Are you planning to get said spark to do the design first tell you where to run the cables and then do the donkey work your self? Or just run the cables and then get the spark in?

You do not have the competence to do this work. There is more than just running cables. What about ring finals and radials? Do you know where you would use one or the other? Do you know about earthing requirements?

I have worked out the cost of parts you require with my trade discount and I have selected MK logic for accessories, Doncaster cable, Hager all RCBO, including all parts I would consider requiring (screws wall plugs capping), without the lighting to around £425 including VAT. This gives a really good design.

I cannot remember is Part L applies to new builds or rewires. If this is the case for a rewire then 30% of the fixed lighting fittings must be low energy fittings. This is to comply with building legislation that you have to comply with.

This is why I did not select cost of lighting into my price.

Hi Adam, to answer those questions.

No I won’t be making connections, just running cable.

I would notify building control if they offered a consultation service that I already pay for as part of council tax. The work will be inspected and signed of by a qualified electrician

I know about part l, part p, look at previous posts. I’m aware of safe zones in relation to bathrooms. I don’t intend to have any sockets in the bathroom, the shaver point will be nearest the sink, well away from the shower. The extractor fan will have its fused spur outside of the bathroom, or I may decide to use a wall mounted switch well away from zones 1,2.

GROUND FLOOR
Electric cooker on 6mm cable running to C/U,

Boiler on same cable

All sockets to kitchen to run on its own ring circuit to C/U

Extractor fan for cooker to run off spur on kitchen ring circuit

Lounge ring circuit + double socket to hall to run on its own ring circuit to C/U

All lighting points on ground including hallway light to run on same circuit to C/U – I don’t know whether it is loop-in or junction box, this is where my sparky will be able to advice, perhaps you or someone can here ?

1 Pendant light to hall used with two way switch operable from top and bottom of stairs - don't know how this is done, dependent on advice from ex-sparky

FIRST FLOOR

All lighting on first floor to run on same circuit to C/U

All sockets to bedroom 1 and 2 and double socket to hall to run on same ring circuit

Extractor for bathroom to run off spur on bedroom ring circuits – fused switch to be outside bathroom or wall mounted outside of zones 1,2 relating to shower. Shaver point to run off bedroom ring circuit, to be placed well outside zones 1,2

PLASTIC PLUMBING PIPE USED THROUGHOUT. EXPOTENTIAL BONDING USED OUTSIDE ON INCOMMING COPPER WATER SUPPLY AND ON GAS PIPE OUTSIDE. WILL DEAL WITH THIS AS ADVISED BY QUALIFIED SPARK WHO MAY DO BONDING TO REGULATIONS WHERE NECESSARY – i.e. boiler ???

Not rocket science... If there are mistakes please correct where necessary.

SAFE ZONES do not just apply to bathrooms. They apply to the entire installation.

Extractor for bathroom to run off spur on bedroom ring circuits – fused switch to be outside bathroom or wall mounted outside of zones 1,2 relating to shower. Shaver point to run off bedroom ring circuit, to be placed well outside zones 1,2

This is not the correct design and this is why you need some one to do the design work for you.

3)If a person contravenes a continuing requirement imposed by virtue of this section, the local authority, without prejudice to their right to take proceedings for a fine in respect of the contravention, may—

(a)execute any work or take any other action required to remedy the contravention, and

(b)recover from that person the expenses reasonably incurred by them in so doing.

(4)Where a local authority have power under subsection (3) above to execute any work or take any other action, they may, instead of exercising that power, by notice require the owner or the occupier of the building to which the contravention referred to in that subsection relates to execute that work or take that action.

You are breaking the law by not notifying building control.

To comply with Part P you have to comply with BS 7671:2008(2011). What you are doing at the moment does not comply with BS 7671:2008(2011) so does not comply with Part P.

A electrical installation certificate has to be issued. Have you seen one of these?

I being the person responsible for the Design, Construction, Inspection & Testing of the electrical installation (as indicated by my
signature below), particulars of which are described above, having exercised reasonable skill and care when carrying out the Design,
Construction, Inspection & Testing, hereby CERTIFY that the said work for which I have been responsible is to the best of my
knowledge and belief in accordance with BS 7671:2008

How are you going to get this to comply when the person signing this form for compliance with Part P has to sign for the DESIGN, CONSTRUCTION, INSPECTION AND TESTING.

Please stop what you are doing and get a spark in first to do the design then you can run the cables do the donkey work to the sparks design and then when you have run the cables chopped the walls allow the spark todo the final connections. The spark has to sign the form so he will have to sign to say he has designed it. I would not sign a electrical installation certificate if I had not been involved with each part of the work. I would allow customers if required and I have in the past allowed builders to run the cables chopped the walls but to my design I have inspected it and then continued with second fix.

You are having a boiler fitted. Have you made any consideration for control wiring as well? This will depend on S-Plan or Y-Plan.

 

[SparrowHawk99]

So you are going to be running the cables and allow a spark to do the actual connections?

Running the cables I would class as needing to know how to design. There is more than just running the cables. It needs to be designed first then cables ran to the design.

Are you going to be notifying building control?

Do you know about building legislations (Part L, Part P) that apply and safe zones?

Are you planning to get said spark to do the design first tell you where to run the cables and then do the donkey work your self? Or just run the cables and then get the spark in?

You do not have the competence to do this work. There is more than just running cables. What about ring finals and radials? Do you know where you would use one or the other? Do you know about earthing requirements?

I have worked out the cost of parts you require with my trade discount and I have selected MK logic for accessories, Doncaster cable, Hager all RCBO, including all parts I would consider requiring (screws wall plugs capping), without the lighting to around £425 including VAT. This gives a really good design.

I cannot remember is Part L applies to new builds or rewires. If this is the case for a rewire then 30% of the fixed lighting fittings must be low energy fittings. This is to comply with building legislation that you have to comply with.

This is why I did not select cost of lighting into my price.

Hi Adam, to answer those questions.

No I won’t be making connections, just running cable.

I would notify building control if they offered a consultation service that I already pay for as part of council tax. The work will be inspected and signed of by a qualified electrician

I know about part l, part p, look at previous posts. I’m aware of safe zones in relation to bathrooms. I don’t intend to have any sockets in the bathroom, the shaver point will be nearest the sink, well away from the shower. The extractor fan will have its fused spur outside of the bathroom, or I may decide to use a wall mounted switch well away from zones 1,2.

GROUND FLOOR
Electric cooker on 6mm cable running to C/U,

Boiler on same cable

All sockets to kitchen to run on its own ring circuit to C/U

Extractor fan for cooker to run off spur on kitchen ring circuit

Lounge ring circuit + double socket to hall to run on its own ring circuit to C/U

All lighting points on ground including hallway light to run on same circuit to C/U – I don’t know whether it is loop-in or junction box, this is where my sparky will be able to advice, perhaps you or someone can here ?

1 Pendant light to hall used with two way switch operable from top and bottom of stairs - don't know how this is done, dependent on advice from ex-sparky

FIRST FLOOR

All lighting on first floor to run on same circuit to C/U

All sockets to bedroom 1 and 2 and double socket to hall to run on same ring circuit

Extractor for bathroom to run off spur on bedroom ring circuits – fused switch to be outside bathroom or wall mounted outside of zones 1,2 relating to shower. Shaver point to run off bedroom ring circuit, to be placed well outside zones 1,2

PLASTIC PLUMBING PIPE USED THROUGHOUT. EXPOTENTIAL BONDING USED OUTSIDE ON INCOMMING COPPER WATER SUPPLY AND ON GAS PIPE OUTSIDE. WILL DEAL WITH THIS AS ADVISED BY QUALIFIED SPARK WHO MAY DO BONDING TO REGULATIONS WHERE NECESSARY – i.e. boiler ???

Not rocket science... If there are mistakes please correct where necessary.

SAFE ZONES do not just apply to bathrooms. They apply to the entire installation.

Extractor for bathroom to run off spur on bedroom ring circuits – fused switch to be outside bathroom or wall mounted outside of zones 1,2 relating to shower. Shaver point to run off bedroom ring circuit, to be placed well outside zones 1,2

This is not the correct design and this is why you need some one to do the design work for you.

3)If a person contravenes a continuing requirement imposed by virtue of this section, the local authority, without prejudice to their right to take proceedings for a fine in respect of the contravention, may—

(a)execute any work or take any other action required to remedy the contravention, and

(b)recover from that person the expenses reasonably incurred by them in so doing.

(4)Where a local authority have power under subsection (3) above to execute any work or take any other action, they may, instead of exercising that power, by notice require the owner or the occupier of the building to which the contravention referred to in that subsection relates to execute that work or take that action.

You are breaking the law by not notifying building control.

To comply with Part P you have to comply with BS 7671:2008(2011). What you are doing at the moment does not comply with BS 7671:2008(2011) so does not comply with Part P.

A electrical installation certificate has to be issued. Have you seen one of these?

I being the person responsible for the Design, Construction, Inspection & Testing of the electrical installation (as indicated by my
signature below), particulars of which are described above, having exercised reasonable skill and care when carrying out the Design,
Construction, Inspection & Testing, hereby CERTIFY that the said work for which I have been responsible is to the best of my
knowledge and belief in accordance with BS 7671:2008

How are you going to get this to comply when the person signing this form for compliance with Part P has to sign for the DESIGN, CONSTRUCTION, INSPECTION AND TESTING.

Please stop what you are doing and get a spark in first to do the design then you can run the cables do the donkey work to the sparks design and then when you have run the cables chopped the walls allow the spark todo the final connections. The spark has to sign the form so he will have to sign to say he has designed it. I would not sign a electrical installation certificate if I had not been involved with each part of the work. I would allow customers if required and I have in the past allowed builders to run the cables chopped the walls but to my design I have inspected it and then continued with second fix.

You are having a boiler fitted. Have you made any consideration for control wiring as well? This will depend on S-Plan or Y-Plan.

My sparks designed it.

Looking forward now to running the cables tomorrow. Thanks guys so far for the tips, you know who you are.

If anyone wants to recommend a decent pendant please do.

banallsheds is still here

 

[EFLImpudence]

If anyone wants to recommend a decent pendant please do.

CLICK

 

[SparrowHawk99]

If anyone wants to recommend a decent pendant please do.

CLICK

One enough for a room? Say 3 x 3 meters ?